New to the forums, long time admirer

[BIGxPAPPA]

Hello all, i am hoping for some input on the rough pricing structure i have loosely researched.

As is in my nature i am weighting the cost of different options but I have no experience in this but i am eager to learn from soup to nuts. I plan to work with a close friends father who runs his own motor shop and will be my main running gear source of information. For the rest i have a friendly mechanic, any literature on Mustang i can find as well as, of course, the FF Forum. Below I have created a list of parts and their projected costs. Being that i know very little of cars, despite spending so much time commuting in one, many parts seem foreign to me... Spindles, control arms, lower A arms as well as the procedures to correctly install and maintain such parts....Anyway my hope is that any and all knowledgeable builders can adjust my assumed costs so that i have a better idea of the projects total expense. What I want when I’m done is an easy to drive cruiser that’s nice to look at (also the requirements I used when looking for a wife). I don’t have any intentions of ever taking the car to a track or winning car shows but I love the idea of a new, clean coyote engine with some up-to-date tech for the interior. This means no carburetor and 427s kind of scare me on a car so small.
I have made many decisions on what i want the car to be when it’s complete, only to convince myself that a different way is the better way to go. Here is my first step:

*Not including wheels/tires, paint, and body work

Non-donor + Complete Kit Option
$9,500 = 5.0L Coyote Crate engine from Summit racing (includes control packs, oil pan, fuel pump, Fuel pressure regulator, XS torque starter, alternator kit, speedometer adjuster)
$2,000 = A manual transmission (not sure which but whatever fits the roadster easiest and handles the peaks of the motor production)
$1,000 = 8.8” rear-end, purchased refurbished (ebay or something)
$2000 = Brakes
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$14,500 = Core Needs
$20,000 = Complete Kit
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* $34,500 = Total Cost (well controlled build, least amount of work/input, highest priced option)

Non-donor + Base Kit Option (Most parts priced from FFR parts catalog)
All of the above plus:
$1,000 – Coil overs
$1,000 – Other parts
$700 – Spindles
$400 – Control arms
$265 – drive shaft
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$14,500 = Core Needs
$3,365 = Extra needed parts for base kit
$13,000 = Base Kit
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* $30,865 = Total Cost (less controlled build, more research needed, more areas to miscalculate or mess up, most amount of input in parts selection and pride post-build. Slightly less expensive)

Donor Car + Base Kit
$10,000 = 2000 – 2004 Ford Mustang with less than 80,000 miles, running and in good condition
$13,000 = Base kit
$2,000 = minor replacement parts, emergency mechanic assistance
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• $25,000 = Total Cost (Most work to do, entry level finishes, used parts, highest possibility of deviation from anticipated cost. Start the project sooner. I can always upgrade non-core parts /evolve with the car.


Please let me know where i may be missing parts or misrepresenting the cost of certain parts. Thanks in advance i look forward to being a bigger part of the forum community!

[DaleG]

Pappa, IMO you are in the ballpark.

I might suggest, considering your experience level, that you go with the Complete Coyote Kit and source your Coyote drivetrain components from someone like Mike Forte at Forte's Parts Connection (a forum vendor); he's knows our builds, can steer you in the right direction, is helpful (my experience) and I've found his $ to be very competitive.

Either way you go - and considering your criteria in choosing a wife - you'll really have to add several $k of options from forum vendors (door sill trim, seat tracks, sound/heat insulation, etc.). to be a happy camper.

FFR periodically runs specials, which can save you big bucks.

Hope this helps. I'm sure others will offer their opinions and support. And, WELCOME!

Cheers, Dale

Might want to check out http://mk4build.com/ . Its a good build site; will cost you a donation to join, but along with the Build Manual, is a great help. I assume you have purchased and downloaded the Build Manual from FFR?

[tcoon]

You're in the ballpark...but don't ignore wheels/tires and paint/bodywork. Wheels and tires $2000 for non chrome versions with big tires and paint/bodywork minimum $5000 if you do a lot of it yourself. I recently did my coupe Paint/body and did it all myself and with the (free) help of friends. I have $3000 in paint and materials! And about 400 man hours of work. Body shops charge in our area about $80 per hour...The cost of all this depends entirely on your choices and demand for level of perfection. I LOVE the coyote power plant!

[Avalanche325]

Shipping costs are significant. Add that in.
What upgrades and accessories do you want? Foot box fresh air, heater, seat heaters, sound deadening, power steering?

If you start getting excited about AN fittings, braided hoses, shiney this and that, it adds up.

I also think your ballpark numbers are good.

[WIS89]

Big Pappa-

Welcome! I think your math is on target for the starting point of your build, and the other folks have added in some things to think about before you put a final number together. I understand that you are going for a well put together car, without going over the top, with some possibilities to add things as you grow more comfortable (some poetic license taken here).

I think you will find that you will wish to add a fair amount of modest upgrades or modifications even keeping it simple. Likewise paint and body can be quite significant, as tcoon mentioned! I don't see where you live, but you may choose to pick it up versus having it shipped if that cost is perhaps easier for you. But Avalanche is right, it can be a significant cost...

Bottom line, your expectations are not out of line. However, I think you need to be honest with yourself and your basic nature. Can you come up with a plan and stick to it without the temptation of a few adjustments as you go-- that will add $$$ to your budget, or are you a type of person who sees a good idea, or a way to improve upon your initial plan and want to add it into your build? I know I am only ever going to build one car. Therefore, I am going to try and put anything I think will make a better build into my car as I build her. Money will be a back stop for me as I go to be sure, and I will likely be waiting on money to catch-up to my wishes as my build progresses. However, I don't want to regret not adding something that would have been easy during the build, but super challenging to add after; but that's me. Where do you think you fit on that scale?

I am not trying to shock or disappoint you, just dial in your expectations. I think you are off to a very informed start, which is great. Dale mentioned Mk4build.com which is a terrific site. There is also a good book called "How to Build Cobra Kit Cars + Buying Used" by Brian Smith (no relation to Dave that I know of) along with the build manual, which are great resources. This forum, as you already know is also a great resource. Give a call to a few of the larger vendors that provide most of the types of things you think you will be adding or need to add, and they can provide more pinpoint guidance than I just did to help you as well.

There is a very good sale going on through the end of the month. If you are hooked, go for it! You can flush out the specific details while you wait to receive the kit. I just don't see a way you can be disappointed. And just an aside... are you sure your wife is an easy to drive cruiser? Just curious, but these are your words, not mine? HAHA. (I am just trying to keep it light!!)

Best of luck as you reach your various decision points. Let us know if we can help! There are some awesome people here on the forum who have helped me tremendously, and my build hasn't started yet-- December!! You cannot go wrong asking questions, and looking around. I wish you luck, and hope you have as much fun as most of us have experienced!!

Regards,

Steve

[rich grsc]

I'm going to say you are $7-10,000 too low. For 10% more than your lowest est. I can sell you a donor built running car. Make changes and up grades as you experience and $$$$ money grow.

[QSL]

the best advice I can give is to take advantage of sales or negotiate a price with a salesman at FF. That will determine base VS complete. We have purchased both ways. Complete is very nice, But we saved quite a bit by buying base kit and then purchasing all the parts as options when they had the 50% off deal a year ago. Saved about 4k with all the options that we wanted.

Some other things that don't come with the base kit are
Wire harness
fuel tank, straps, etc
ignition switch
headlight switch
lower control arms
spindles
motor/trans mounts
brakes
E brake
steering rack
pedal box


Generally with sales or negotiating you can get free wheels and some other goodies.

good luck!

[edwardb]

I am not trying to shock or disappoint you, just dial in your expectations. I think you are off to a very informed start, which is great. Dale mentioned Mk4build.com which is a terrific site. There is also a good book called "How to Build Cobra Kit Cars + Buying Used" by Brian Smith (no relation to Dave that I know of) along with the build manual, which are great resources. This forum, as you already know is also a great resource. Give a call to a few of the larger vendors that provide most of the types of things you think you will be adding or need to add, and they can provide more pinpoint guidance than I just did to help you as well.

On my second build, so have some experience with this subject. I agree both Mk4build and the book referenced are great resources. Just be aware, both result in very high-end builds. The Mk4build site shows multiple modifications. Which is fine, and I've gotten many ideas from there. But you could quickly get the idea that the stock Factory Five build must have nearly every aspect changed. It doesn't unless you choose to. It will work if built just as outlined in the manual. The build in the Cobra Kit Car book shows a budget of over $60K. Again, made a nice high-end finished product, but quite far from what you've outlined. I'm mainly just agreeing with the original premise -- manage your expectations. Put a plan together and try to stay with it. Factory Five has greatly improved their manuals, in my opinion, so those are certainly resources. This forum plus FFCars.com are also really great resources.

For the record -- citing my experience -- my Mk3 build came in quite over budget due to the usual mods that I didn't think I could live without once I got into it, a really bad experience buying a motor that required a lot of work later, and grossly underestimating how much a decent paint job would cost. I learned from all three experiences. My Mk4 build is, by plan, a higher end build and will cost more than the Mk3. But at this point is running pretty much on budget. But I can tell you it will be quite a bit more than any of the numbers you cited. For the record, most spend more than what you've outlined. For big reasons and for small ones. It all just adds up.

But I will add, in the interest of not being negative, these two builds are the most satisfying things I've done in a long time. Oh and pretty fun to drive too!! I'm having a blast. I don't have a single regret for a single penny spent. Absolutely worth it and I highly recommend.

[CraigS]

I won't try to get in to the $ part of the deal but just throw in a few thoughts. engine; If you want a Coyote go for it but realize it is much more complicated than a carbed 302 0r 351. There is a Coyote sub forum either here or on the other forum that could help out a lot.. Complete kit or?: I recently helped w/ Bill 3422s complete kit build and think the complete kit is a really good way to go. If you enjoy doing tons of research for every decision, and want to do something different, a base kit can be an advantage as QSL stated. OTOH, the complete kit is very good and the front suspension stuff is the latest design that incorporates all the improvements that have come up over the years. If I were building I would do complete in a heartbeat.

[BIGxPAPPA]

Thank You all for the input this insight will help as i build the plan for the build.

First off i want to clarify, I dont expect that the 'total cost' to be the actual total spent. I just meant for the engine and kit. Since the wheels, body work, paint and transport would be roughtly the same for any of the options i left those aside.

I have read through the "How to Build Cobra Kit Cars + Buying Used" by Brian Smith a few times and while it seems a good outline im just nervous they left out a minor thing here or there that could stump me but thats where I will rely on the aggregated information on this forum as well as other forums and previous build journals.

In reguards to what type of builder i belive myself to be. I dont enjoy the researching of every decision so i guess the complete build would be less stressful and allow for more of a lego set type of process. I am still in between what kind of motor i would ultimatly choose. What's really pushing me into this is my desire to want to build things. Having a beautiful car to drive when its ll done is the perk but the build is the real fun. In fact, im dabling with the idea of building the engine myself. which would require learning from the bottom up, considering i have very little engine knowledge. My first step, as dumb as it sounds, was buying a small plastic engine model to get me familiar with parts and such. It kept me busy for a couple hours but what im really waiting on are the 302 engine build/rebuild books i got off amazon. I figure builgin the engine will allow me to get started on the overall project sooner and I can buy some of those parts as finances allow. This will also truely be able to say I built the entire car.

I dont need to make any definitive decisions right now. After looking at financial priorities i anticipate getting the kit in about 2 years which would allow me more than enough time to waffle back and forth. and i know right now that i will change my mind as the build goes along and there is no way i will make a decision on a paint color until everything is put together.

Thanks again for all the help. Now i just need to learn how to build an engine....hopefully the local Community College will allow me to take some unmatriculated courses so i can get more exposure to engine building/repairing.

[rlampman]

I would second the idea of using the experience of venders that know ffr's. I used Mike Forte for my TKO transmission and his knowledge helped a lot! I would add another 1k to that line after clutch, bellhousing, etc. Definitely use the mk4build.com site as well as the forums to help see what you want to add to the build. Options and changes take time and money.

Welcome to the disease (that I don't want a cure for)
Rod

[CraigS]

If you want to build your own engine that will be great fun. Start w/ this book.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0912656891/ref=pd_lpo_k2_dp_sr_1?pf_rd_p=1535523722&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=1557885362&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=1A87N4XW2TVHDJKC7H0D
And then talk w/ Forte and buy from him. I recommend this because, if you look at Summit for rod bearings for instance, there will be maybe 50 choices. Mike will pick the one that you need for your engine. And I can't count how many time he has chimed in on a post w/ a question and given out his cell number so the poster could call him.