Soft Top

[John4337]

Now that I'm on the road, the next add on is a soft top. I'm undeceided on the traditional or the new premium one. I'd like to look at them in person if possible, does anyone in the Palm Beach County area have one that they'd be willing to let me take a peek at? Any other input is also welcome.

[Scott Zackowski]

I don't live in your area but I recently saw the traditional top developed by Whitby (and I believe sold by FFR as well). I initially was impressed more by the Premium top sold by FFR. But after seeing Whitby's tradiotnal version, I like it better, much more vintage looking with snaps and all, nice canvas (not vinyl) top.

My vote is for the Whitby version.

Mk IV, Complete kit, FFR 7304

[skullandbones]

Hi John,

Wish I could help you with checking out the tops but haven't seen either one in person. I think you are right to want to inspect them first hand as the investment is significantly different. It's funny how we sometimes can make a decision of quality just by seeing it up close and personal. It's not scientific but it does work in many cases.

I have been looking at the different tops ever since I started my MKIII build long time ago. The main concern I had was the support the top would require to have the fit and finish of an OEM top. The original one uses the windscreen frame for some support. I don't think that's a great idea. That's where the engineering and premium cost comes in for the modern FFR top. I see the quality of the stand alone top just in the way it does not need the windscreen to give the top shape. The bow and the static anchor points at the top of the windscreen frame are the only touch points but I don't think they exact much real pressure on the frame itself. If you need and want that great look of a stretched top, that would have to be the way to go since the top frame may actually add stability to the windscreen frame and uses it's built in engineering to stretch the cloth on the top.

I'm going to reserve judgement until I can see one in person. It would also be good to get "Gumball's" opinion on the vintage top. Maybe he will chime in on the subject. I think he is installing one but have only seen preliminary shots of it. He might have some insight on the support of the original top frame and the details about how it actually fits. Glad you are researching this. I have minimal needs at this point for a top but it would extend the driving times as we have brutally hot sun even when the temp is not that bad. The shade would make it much easier to take those mid day trips. Of course, a top would also add to the cockpit heat but that's one of many compromises we make with these projects. Good luck, WEK.

[WIS89]

John-

I don't wish to contradict Scott, as I know how good all of Whitby's products are in all respects. However, I have one word of caution, and that is in regard to a canvas top. I agree that they look much better, and have a very finished look. However, canvas doesn't hold up as well as the vinyl over time. I have had a couple of convertibles, and all of the experience I have tells me to go vinyl.

Whatever you do, you are right to look into the details and make an informed decision! In the end, it all depends on how you use your car, and your expectations of the top. Either will do a good job, but they are very different products. I am not sure that I have helped, but at least I hope I have provided some insight. Good luck with your decision.

Regards,

Steve

[Scott Zackowski]

John-

I don't wish to contradict Scott, as I know how good all of Whitby's products are in all respects. However, I have one word of caution, and that is in regard to a canvas top. I agree that they look much better, and have a very finished look. However, canvas doesn't hold up as well as the vinyl over time. I have had a couple of convertibles, and all of the experience I have tells me to go vinyl.

Whatever you do, you are right to look into the details and make an informed decision! In the end, it all depends on how you use your car, and your expectations of the top. Either will do a good job, but they are very different products. I am not sure that I have helped, but at least I hope I have provided some insight. Good luck with your decision.

Regards,

Steve

No offense taken Steve.
Everything about these builds is personal choice. I believe that is why most of us build them.

I commented on the other forum that I could not speak to the functionality of either top, particularly at higher driving speeds. The Whitby top I saw was at the Charlotte Auto Fair. It had been on the car for awhile. I did not speak directly to the owner but the word was he like it a lot. I am sure Whitby could address most questions.

[carlewms]

Well I might as well weigh in ...

I have had 5 convertible cars over my life time ... three had vinyl tops and two had canvas tops and the last has a metal foldable top. What I have found is that the ultimate drivability of the top is dependent on three things: 1. To quality of the top (the skeleton and the cloth/canvas; 2. The installation and 3. The Maintenance.

For example the VW tops (vinyl) we very well made, installed and lasted a very long time (until I started to neglect the maintenance) the original and the replacement both had liners;

The Spitfire and MGB vinyl tops were constant leakers of both water and wind; generally ill fitting from the gitgo. I replaced the vinyl on the MGB with a quality top installed by someone very familiar with MGBs, it lasted for many years and leaked a lot less.

Of all the tops, the BMW's canvass, insulated top was by far the best quality, leaked the least and did not flap around at speed (and I mean 70-80 mph on the open road).

One item that will eliminate a lot of pressure on the top is the ability to open the rear window; my Spitfire and MGB tops could be unzipped at the rear window which reduced the "ballooning" you see on some cars going down the road at speed.

The other factor that influences flapping is the airflow over the top (obviously I guess). The leading edge on the top of the windshield needs to transition as smoothly as possible and the ability to keep the canvas on the bows is important. These are generally influenced by design (the way the canvas is installed at the windshield, the stiffness of the bows), but IMHO mostly by the quality of the installation. If the top is not stretched over the bows properly or tight it is gonna flap more.

Another consideration on a fiberglass car is the strength at the points where the top attaches to the fiberglass (Ferrules at the door posts, lift a dots, etc.). I plan on glassing in either sheet metal or large washers at the these locations to make them stronger spreading forces on the top across the metal vice just the fiberglass.

I am going to use the Whitby version because it is canvas/cloth; has much better rear visibility than the FFR version and according to what I have learned from other is easier to take down and put up.

BTW if you want to see more about tops search for UK and South Africa cars on the web; They have a lot of top ideas.

Jus my two cents.

Carl

[John4337]

Thanks for all the feedback. I agree that the zip out window would seem to be a good way to reduce ballooning and increase ventilation. I know that the premium top doesn't feature one, and I don't think the Whitby one does either, but I'm not sure. This is one of those really tough choices, there's a big cost difference, and there seems to be good points for both tops. The thought of drilling a bunch of holes in the body is not all that appealing and may push me away from that option, but I'd still love to see them both up close.

Thanks again

John

[Doutie]

Hi John,
I thought carlewms had some good advise for you. I just recently bought a MarkII in Arizona and drove it home to Washington. Unfortunately I didn't have the side windows installed (long story) and this increased the ballooning a lot. So much so that anything over about 60 mph yanked on the window frame so hard, that it was moving 3/8 to 1/2 inch at the top. I was seriously worried that the window would grenade or the frame come loose. If you can find some of the examples to look at first hand that
would be great, but also ask for a ride and see how they preform. I remember a Geo Metro rolling by me out in the middle of the Moab desert, and I let that happen because the window scared me. It ain't right, not right at all.

[John4337]

I just recently bought a MarkII in Arizona and drove it home to Washington. Unfortunately I didn't have the side windows installed (long story) and this increased the ballooning a lot. So much so that anything over about 60 mph yanked on the window frame so hard, that it was moving 3/8 to 1/2 inch at the top. I was seriously worried that the window would grenade or the frame come loose.

Thanks for the jumping in. Do you have the old style top? Am I correct that the rear window doesn't zip out?

John

[Doutie]

Yes John mine is the old style FFR top and the rear window does not open.

[skullandbones]

May I suggest whatever model you choose: you can take the canvas to a competent marine shop (bimini tops and convertible boat tops) and have a zipper installed and it will work like you want. They could even fit it with some straps to secure the rolled up window. I was in the marine business so I know it would be a simple task for them and probably not that expensive. WEK.

[CraigS]

I will add one thought based on my APE hard top experience. If at all possible, have the rear window be unzipable. This may not be possible as it may be needed to hold the canvas/vinyl in position. But, the side and rear windows out give a really great driving experience. The air beating on the side of you head is deflected by the side of the top. What remains is a nice feeling of air circulating all around you w/ none of it beating you to death.

[thedonva]

Hi - I just picked up a MK4 and am looking to add a soft top (and wipers), which top did you end up going with John? I live in Northern, VA so I'm hoping someone in the DC area can help me install whatever top I choose.

[Jester]

There is a fairly lengthy and thorough discussion on soft tops on the ffcars forum

I am leaning to the premium top given the design, strength and stability. You can order a removable rear window and also small rear quarter windows for better visibility. Nothing like seeing in person which at this point I have seen neither top

[CraigS]

Aside from the overall quality difference (as you might expect from the price difference) the FFR premium top is the only one that looks right from a side view. Maybe it's just me but growing up in the 60s and 70s and being around all the English imports all the time, there is no way the rearmost bow in the top should be the highest.

[John4337]

Don,

I got the premium top. Very well made, install took about an hour, which included a very long deep, breath before I could bring my self to drill the body.

I've used it several times, very secure and tight at highway speeds, with and without the side curtains in.

Hope this helps.

John

http://i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb391/JOhn4337/Roadster%20Build/Top%20Arrives%20October%202013/IMG_20131025_185605_155_zps016762ea.jpg

http://i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb391/JOhn4337/Roadster%20Build/Top%20Arrives%20October%202013/IMG_20131025_185624_053_zpsfa07d5a7.jpg

[Jester]

John,

Looks great - I have decided on the same top with removable rear window and quarter windows.

I will post when I have it installed

Thx for posting

[thedonva]

I'm going with a hard top from APE products. I like the look and the cost - $1795 with some killer windows. Of course I still have to get it painted and I'm not sure what that will run me.

[CraigS]

I have an APE top and had it painted to match the car including stripes. I really liked that look on the APE website pics. One other way less expensive option would be to paint it black yourself. You could even go w/ a satin or flat black. Just a thought.

[thedonva]

I have an APE top and had it painted to match the car including stripes. I really liked that look on the APE website pics. One other way less expensive option would be to paint it black yourself. You could even go w/ a satin or flat black. Just a thought.

Thanks Craig - do you remember what it cost to paint the top? My cobra is blue / white so I would probably have to go with solid blue rather than black.
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f47/Don_Marrow/cobrafront_zpse7833718.jpg

[thedonva]

I have an APE top and had it painted to match the car including stripes. I really liked that look on the APE website pics. One other way less expensive option would be to paint it black yourself. You could even go w/ a satin or flat black. Just a thought.

Thanks Craig - do you remember what it cost to paint the hard top?

[Raceral]

I had the Whitby top and its a lot to be said for a top you can take out of our trunk when you see the black clouds heading straight at you and in 10 min. have a top over your head and your wife is all happy.

[thedonva]

Craig - Can you post a picture of your hard top? I ordered one of those but the one advantage of the soft top is being able to stow it in the trunk. I'm curious how much room that leaves you for a small bag?

[John4337]

Here's a few pictures of my premium top in the trunk. The top canvas is in a roll bag on the upper level. The side curtains are in a bag under that. You can't see the amp for the sound system and a small socket set on the upper floor. All the top hardware is in the bag on the lower floor. There's a little room left for a duffel bag.

John

http://i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb391/JOhn4337/Roadster%20Build/Top%20Arrives%20October%202013/IMG_20140818_211301_870_zpsxtafrz96.jpg

http://i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb391/JOhn4337/Roadster%20Build/Top%20Arrives%20October%202013/IMG_20140818_211213_495_zpsejrxpodp.jpg

http://i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb391/JOhn4337/Roadster%20Build/Top%20Arrives%20October%202013/IMG_20140818_211234_939_zpsapq1lepf.jpg

[thedonva]

John - Appreciate the pictures - Beautiful car. I did order the APE Hard Top. I wish the premium soft top was a little cheaper.