THE Gauges and Cluster thread

[Frank818]

For those like me who want a different style gauges set or entire cluster, I've been searching for the details of replacing the gauges in the cluster.

Is it possible to change the gauges and fit a different style, aftermarket?
How about changing the cluster itself and having a gauge for everything, speedo, water, fuel, oil, odo, etc.?

For entire clusters, I have found Defi Gauges http://shop.edoperformance.com/advanced_search_result.php?keywords=defi&osCsid=ckegknra9s4353ji13chicu8e2&sort=4d
They have display units, gauges and 1-2 entire cluster, but the best one is discontinued and quite rare to find outside Japan, the Defi SuperSport model. All these are expensive to me.

For gauges only, first you gotta know the OEM sizes (as per the measurements on my own 05 2.5RS):

- Stock speedo 4" without bezel, 4.5" with bezel;
- Stock RPM and Water/Fuel 3.5" without bezel, 4" with bezel.

Gauges only, choices are multiple.
I am listing a few here:

- SpeedHut (very customizable!);
- Glowshift;
- Prosport.

I was concerned about how to install the gauges in the OEM circuit board.
It seems pretty standard as per some instructions I found on SpeedHut website:
http://www.speedhut.com/instructions/4inch_indash_tach_instructions.pdf
http://www.speedhut.com/instructions.i

So that's what I have as info on that.
I do not want to keep OEM gauges. The 818 is a special car so I want to give it some special parts. :) That's my own opinion.

[PhyrraM]

Most aftermarket gauges don't use the 'shell' of the original cluster at all. From what I have seen, usually you make a plate (wood, aluminum, composite, whatever) that fits the opening that FFR provides for the cluster and mount your new gauges on the plate.

[longislandwrx]

Do you think it will be cut from the factory? the R had no cutout , aren't most things cut yourself unless you pay extra?

[Frank818]

Most aftermarket gauges don't use the 'shell' of the original cluster at all. From what I have seen, usually you make a plate (wood, aluminum, composite, whatever) that fits the opening that FFR provides for the cluster and mount your new gauges on the plate.

Only thing is you are the missing dials like Check Engine lights, seat belt (if it's working on the 818!) and other warnings. But do we really need those...

[RelfF2]

Also, from what I've been told the center tach cluster is a direct replacement for the center speedo cluster. I hope that's true, but I also like the idea of a custom cluster of autometer gauges sitting in a piece of aluminum in the stock location. I wonder how plug-and-play that is on these cars.

[Frank818]

Do you think it will be cut from the factory? the R had no cutout , aren't most things cut yourself unless you pay extra?

I believe the reason they would let that to the customer is in order for you to do whatever you want where ever you want. If I recall, on the GTM you get a plate and you cut where you want so you can mount whichever gauges and fit them where ever you want. If I am not mistaken.

[Frank818]

Also, from what I've been told the center tach cluster is a direct replacement for the center speedo cluster. I hope that's true,

I have seen a video on the tube of someone swapping around the speedo and tacho. I didn't check all of it, I think he had to re-route something like wires or plugs so that the board now knows the tach in the middle and speedo on the right, but physically it was fitting.

[PhyrraM]

Only the '02-'03 had the center speedometer. From '04+ they had the center tachometer. At least for the WRX/STIs. I'm not sure about the normally aspirated Imprezas.

If you have an '02-'03 cluster from your donor then at least the '04 is a plug-n-play upgrade. No mods to any harnesses necessary. I've done it myself - in the junkyard parking lot after purchasing it. Again, WRX to WRX. Not sure about the others.

[wleehendrick]

Only the '02-'03 had the center speedometer. From '04+ they had the center tachometer. At least for the WRX/STIs. I'm not sure about the normally aspirated Imprezas.

My current Z has a center tach and really like it. My donor is an 06 WRX, so I'm happy my 818 will still have a center tach.

I plan to use the Subaru gauge cluster, but wouldn't mind spiffing it up some, perhaps with new faces. Any suggestions or guidance for reworking itr with custom faces, perhaps with FFR and/or 818 logos?

[Frank818]

Custom faces (to some extent of the word "custom") are found using SpeedHut gauges (but you need the entire gauge). Yes you can have your own logo or writings on these gauges.

What some people in the subby workd have done is swap in an STI cluster, which is red. I think the 08+ are different as well for WRX, but I am unsure. I am also unsure if an STI cluster is a direct swap down to a WRX, but some have done it.

[Frank818]

Guys, what do you think about GPS Speedos?

What happens if you drive through a tunnel? Will the GPS signal work or your gauge will suddenly read 0mph?
I know GPS's (the ones used in cars or on motorcycles) lose signal in tunnels, at least the one in my area!

Well, here's some answer!

http://www.speedhut.com/faq.i#does-the-gps-speedometer-ever-drop-signal

[Frank818]

perhaps with new faces. Any suggestions or guidance for reworking itr with custom faces, perhaps with FFR and/or 818 logos?

SpeedHut has some faces, but they are not 818/FFR specific of course.
http://www.speedhut.com/shop/c/40:21/Subaru-Custom-Dials/

But they say you can call them for custom stuff.
And pay the money, certainly. :)

[wleehendrick]

SpeedHut has some faces, but they are not 818/FFR specific of course.
http://www.speedhut.com/shop/c/40:21/Subaru-Custom-Dials/

Thanks for the info, something like that is what I'm looking for, but would need it for an 06. I'm hoping people will chime in with tips and tricks for replacing the faces with home-grown replacements, so we can design our own logos.

[wleehendrick]

Also, I must correct the arrow for the fuel filler, since it will be on the other side. That will bother me way to much!

[flynntuna]

Also, I must correct the arrow for the fuel filler, since it will be on the other side. That will bother me way to much!

Wow, just went out to check my forester...sure enough there's a fuel door arrow, never noticed it before. So much for my power of observation. LOL.

[JAubin]

I am using an STI cluster ( 02 donor). I obtained an '04 cluster, and the only change I think is to cut the pin 28 (Don't quote me on that!) wire from the center cluster, as that will otherwise short out the radio (assuming you're using one) It's nearly plug and play, and looks great besides the DCCD light being on (since no DCCD in a 5 speed!) That's easy enough to fix though. Using STi cluster w/ Amber DEFI gauges which are pretty close in color and also have the startup sequence.

[Mechie3]

Removing the needles can be bad on these clusters as getting them to properly rezero doesn't work out so well.

Here's the first DIY I ever wrote back in 2006 at the young age of 23. It details how to take apart the cluster and change the color of the lighting without hot spotting. This was my first proto. Later versions had much cleaner wiring. I think LennTR wrote another tutorial using prewired strips of LED's too.

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1124644

A pic of the ones I did for AZ Scooby. Used to do these for money while watching TV at night. Don't do it anymore. Too labor intensive and not enough $$.

http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q291/mechie3/gaugestr6.jpg

[wleehendrick]

Here's the first DIY I ever wrote back in 2006 at the young age of 23

Thanks for sharing.... I'm fine with the stock backlighting, however, I would like to remove the fuel door label (or at least change the arrow orientation) and change the IMPREZZA to 818.

Since you've had your hands on a lot of clusters, any opinion on how to modify the gauge face masking to maintain the backlit functionality (instead of a plain overlay)?

[Frank818]

Yeah tnx for sharing your age, Mechie. lolll

[AZPete]

longislandwrx asked if the dash would have a cutout. I notice in a photo in Erik's "Flash" thread that there is an oval cutout. I plan on using aftermarket gauges, perhaps Autometer, and making a panel to hold them that will fit into the cutout. For wiring them into the OE harness, I think someone with more smarts about electrons will figure it out - and those guys are here, thankfully.
Pete

[Mechie3]

Thanks for sharing.... I'm fine with the stock backlighting, however, I would like to remove the fuel door label (or at least change the arrow orientation) and change the IMPREZZA to 818.

Since you've had your hands on a lot of clusters, any opinion on how to modify the gauge face masking to maintain the backlit functionality (instead of a plain overlay)?

I'm not 100% sure what you're asking about the masking.

The fuel door and 818 are white printing on the top face of the gauge. Even when not lit up, they're both visible. If you were to scrape it off, you'd see clear plastic and then the green behind it. If you paint over it, it'd be hard to match the matte finish. Your best bet is probably a nicely cut sticker to place over it.

[Frank818]

For wiring them into the OE harness, I think someone with more smarts about electrons will figure it out - and those guys are here, thankfully.

That shouldn't be too hard has usually those wires are color specific. Might need a subaru wiring diagram, maybe. But all in all, that's pretty much what I plan on doing too! Some gauges even come with the high beam and flashers lights, besides that, who needs the DCCD light, check engine, seat belt (if you don't have yours on, next time you brake you will know!), oil level, etc. What else is there as illuminated pictograms...

[JAubin]

Interesting how many people are planning on tossing the stock instrument cluster altogether and going custom... I've considered doing that, but I would likely go with a motec display or something along those lines. I had mentioned a long time ago, and maybe it's worth considering trying to use a tablet of some sort to display a custom interface. Would be pretty slick that you could have it display similar to a motec, or have a navigation screen overlayed with speed & RPM.

[Frank818]

A tablet, we could stick in a Mini iPad!!! :)

What I would REALLY love to have is a flat display that I can configure the display myself. How big the gauges are, colors, needles, numbers, what is shown, where, when to flash/warn, everything. And the software would simply display what I asked for, say I have drawn inside the software, save it and it displays!

I can't come across these type of displays. If they exist.

Motec, I'll check on that. Or even Race Logic, they have one I think.

[timmy318]

A tablet, we could stick in a Mini iPad!!! :)

What I would REALLY love to have is a flat display that I can configure the display myself. How big the gauges are, colors, needles, numbers, what is shown, where, when to flash/warn, everything. And the software would simply display what I asked for, say I have drawn inside the software, save it and it displays!

I can't come across these type of displays. If they exist.

Motec, I'll check on that. Or even Race Logic, they have one I think.

I think it's called V-Box or something. I've been contemplating on using a ipad-mini as a gauge cluster instead of the "regular" stuff. Then I saw Kalstar with the center console nav system and that got me thinking even harder on doing something like that. The car I have now has a center tach and I love it!

[bnr32jason]

I'm going with a full Speedhut gauge set using the GPS speedo. If I know I'm going into a tunnel or something I'll judge my speed by gear and RPM, which is easy if you know your car well.

[wleehendrick]

I'm not 100% sure what you're asking about the masking.

The fuel door and 818 are white printing on the top face of the gauge. Even when not lit up, they're both visible. If you were to scrape it off, you'd see clear plastic and then the green behind it. If you paint over it, it'd be hard to match the matte finish. Your best bet is probably a nicely cut sticker to place over it.

Oh, gotcha, my cluster has been in a box for a while and I don't drive a Subaru to be familiar enougth with it. Looking at your photos, thought those features were back-lit. Since the only items I want to change are printed, a sticker/overlay is the way to go.

Thanks...

[Frank818]

I think it's called V-Box or something. I've been contemplating on using a ipad-mini as a gauge cluster instead of the "regular" stuff. Then I saw Kalstar with the center console nav system and that got me thinking even harder on doing something like that. The car I have now has a center tach and I love it!

Kalstar? I did a google search and guess what? On #2 this thread with your post showed up! lolll Aside from aviation stuff, I couldn't find a Kalstar cluster. :(

The Race Logic VBOX is a Non-contact speed and distance measurement using GPS. It's a bit more than that.

I can't find their in-dash display unit, that's weird...

So far I target a full SpeedHut set me too. GPS as well. Who cares in tunnels, just drive as fast as the others and you're ok. It's not like if I were to drive between France and England twice a day or through the Mont Blanc tunnel. :)

[Canadian818]

I have a Bluetooth obd2 reader and an android tablet with the "torque" app. It can display any factory sensor, and you can customize the display to your hearts content.

[Silvertop]

Only the '02-'03 had the center speedometer. From '04+ they had the center tachometer. At least for the WRX/STIs. I'm not sure about the normally aspirated Imprezas.

If you have an '02-'03 cluster from your donor then at least the '04 is a plug-n-play upgrade. No mods to any harnesses necessary. I've done it myself - in the junkyard parking lot after purchasing it. Again, WRX to WRX. Not sure about the others.

Looks like the change to center tachometer in '04 applies only to WRX/STI. I just checked my '04 NA Donor instrument cluster. At the very least, the '04 Outback Sport still has a center speedometer.

[bnr32jason]

Maybe it's just me, but after using aftermarket sensors for long, I don't think I trust the factory sensors for important information.

I would love to get a Haltech IQ3, just not sure if I want to spend that much cash on my gauge setup.

[timmy318]

I know I've seen it somewhere on this forum, but does anyone know of a company that makes custom gauges (I know most do, but I'd like to know if anyone on here has a set and would like to get their feed-back).

[Kalstar]

Kalstar? I did a google search and guess what? On #2 this thread with your post showed up! lolll Aside from aviation stuff, I couldn't find a Kalstar cluster. :(

The Race Logic VBOX is a Non-contact speed and distance measurement using GPS. It's a bit more than that.

I can't find their in-dash display unit, that's weird...

So far I target a full SpeedHut set me too. GPS as well. Who cares in tunnels, just drive as fast as the others and you're ok. It's not like if I were to drive between France and England twice a day or through the Mont Blanc tunnel. :)


Frank, this is what Timmy was talking about.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?10577-Isn-t-technology-great-best-in-dash-ever-on-the-cheap

[longislandwrx]

longislandwrx asked if the dash would have a cutout. I notice in a photo in Erik's "Flash" thread that there is an oval cutout. I plan on using aftermarket gauges, perhaps Autometer, and making a panel to hold them that will fit into the cutout. For wiring them into the OE harness, I think someone with more smarts about electrons will figure it out - and those guys are here, thankfully.
Pete

Pete thanks for the heads up. Good to know TY!

[VD2021]

A tablet, we could stick in a Mini iPad!!! :)

What I would REALLY love to have is a flat display that I can configure the display myself. How big the gauges are, colors, needles, numbers, what is shown, where, when to flash/warn, everything. And the software would simply display what I asked for, say I have drawn inside the software, save it and it displays!

I can't come across these type of displays. If they exist.

Motec, I'll check on that. Or even Race Logic, they have one I think.

Though I am personally not a huge fan of a full digital display Intellitronix has a DIY configurable kit and other options.
http://www.intellitronix.com/CREATE-A-DASH.html#white

[Turboguy]

http://www.racepak.com/images/iq3dash.jpg


done.

[Frank818]

I have a Bluetooth obd2 reader and an android tablet with the "torque" app. It can display any factory sensor, and you can customize the display to your hearts content.

Wow really I didn't know that was possible.
May I ask for a pic of that when turned on?

[Frank818]

Though I am personally not a huge fan of a full digital display Intellitronix has a DIY configurable kit and other options.
http://www.intellitronix.com/CREATE-A-DASH.html#white

Those are physical gauges right? Not a plate like an ipad with digital gauges drawn on the screen.

[StatGSR]

Wow really I didn't know that was possible.
May I ask for a pic of that when turned on?

just googled it
https://www.google.com/search?q=android+torque+app&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&um=1&hl=en&biw=1497&bih=605&ie=UTF-8&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&ei=q7nNUYz2OoSYygGonIHQDA

[VD2021]

Wow really I didn't know that was possible.
May I ask for a pic of that when turned on?

I run Torque and DashCommand using an ELM OBDII Bluetooth adapter and my android phone. Love all that Torque can do. But I prefer the layout and look of DashCommand's stock dashboard.

Running one of these or similar app as the IP would be great as long as you'really OK with the inherent lag.

If you Google them you should find some info and videos of them in action.

[Frank818]

just googled it
https://www.google.com/search?q=android+torque+app&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&um=1&hl=en&biw=1497&bih=605&ie=UTF-8&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&ei=q7nNUYz2OoSYygGonIHQDA

Sad thing, I only checked on Google Play, which has very minimal pix. lolll Tnx

[Frank818]

I run Torque and DashCommand using an ELM OBDII Bluetooth adapter and my android phone. Love all that Torque can do. But I prefer the layout and look of DashCommand's stock dashboard.

Running one of these or similar app as the IP would be great as long as you'really OK with the inherent lag.

If you Google them you should find some info and videos of them in action.

I am on Tube now, checking. If there's a lag, not sure I'll appreciate. I'll see on the videos.

tnx for the info!!

[VD2021]

Those are physical gauges right? Not a plate like an ipad with digital gauges drawn on the screen.

Yeah. Each is an individual gauge just in a digital format. http://youtu.be/V6Khujsqt7Y



I am on Tube now, checking. If there's a lag, not sure I'll appreciate. I'll see on the videos.

tnx for the info!!

I don't know if you'll be aware of it with the video/s.

If you have a smart phone or a tablet with Bluetooth, You can order an ELM adapter (~$15), download the app and test it out.

DashCommand has both a smart phone/tablet version and a PC version. The PC version can be used with a Wired ELM OBDII adapter.

[randy808]

Turboguy,
Have you used an IQ3 in the past? What was it like to install and configure? Do you know what you are going to use to tie it into your 818?
Thanks!

[Turboguy]

Turboguy,
Have you used an IQ3 in the past? What was it like to install and configure? Do you know what you are going to use to tie it into your 818?
Thanks!

No I have not used it, but I've heard great things about it.


How I tie it in will depend on what I do for engine management -- looks like I'm going standalone, at the moment. Racepack has pre-built cables which allow it to plug into a lot of existing ECU's. If a pre-built cable isn't available, then I'll have to cross that bridge when I come to it.

[Grintch]

You can get just a digital dash without all the data aquisition included from Race Technologies. And theirs includes support for turn signals and idiot lights (UK company that is used a lot in various UK kits). Down side is that their documentation and US support is not so great.

AIM would be my first choice for a digital dash with built in data aquisition in the US.

[randy808]

Still looking at Aim and Motec as well. Guess it all comes down to $$$!!! :-)

[JeromeS13]

+1 for AimSport. If you don't need datalogging capabilities, you can get the MXL Strada for around $1200. Add a Subaru Plug-n-Play harness and it'll read the majority of outputs from the ECM. Then you should only need a few cheap sensors (oil temp/pressure) and you're set. Nice and compact.

[Frank818]

I find that those digital dashes don't display enough information at the same time.
I'm the type of guy who wants to see everything without having to push on a button to show a variety of information one after each other.

So I guess I'll stick will aftermarket gauges.

[JeromeS13]

What all do you need to see at one time? RPM, Speed, Current Gear and four programmable readings can all be seen at one time with the MXL. You can also program warnings, so that when they reach a pre-set level, it'll illuminate a red warning light and display the value, even if it isn't one of your primary readings.

[Frank818]

I'm sort of a crazy guy about that...

9 or 10.
RPM, Speed, Water Temp, Oil Temp, Oil Press, A/F, Boost, Intake Temp, Volts, Current gear if feasible.

I think I should read a bit more about the digital dashes, then. Maybe I could live easily with the option of displaying the value when it hits a pre-set warning. I'm no expert with those dashes, so I don't really understand all their functionality.

RPM, Speed, A/F, Boost, Intake Temp, Oil Temp are really the main ones that I don't necessarily check when they are outside an acceptable threshold (low and high limits). So that would fit!
Ok tnx for that, I will spend more time reading on those. :)

[Frank818]

You're right, looks nice.
Requires some additional harnesses, though.
Subaru 99-11 seem to be supported, in the manual. Yeah, after reading more on it, it'd do what I'd like, all-in-one.

[07FIREBLADE]

Which unit are you referring to frank?

[Frank818]

We were talking about the AIM MXL Strada http://www.aimsports.com/products/mxl-strada/index.html

[alpine227]

I have been researching using ms3x displayed on a 7inch tab using msdroid. Iam trying to work out a fuel level indicator. I might be able to reprogram the egt input to read out fuel level. I have used ms2 on several setups never on a subaru 6/7 h4 however. Should also allow for sequential fuel injection and coil on plug and drastic reduction to engine harness and dash harness. On a side note still trying to convince the mrs that I need another toy any pointers.......

[JeromeS13]

I actually have an AimSport MXL Pista that I previously had in my '08 STI Time Attack car. I like that one because of the datalogging cababilities. The Subaru harness is only around $100, IIRC.

[07FIREBLADE]

Yoyr doing research for the forum and you are our ginuea p8g for the experiment....

[alpine227]

I ran a similar ms setup in my locost (ford 2.3 turbo) the bluetooth connecton did have a slight bit of lag. Really annoying for tach and afr (lc1) another possibility a bare bones pc (raspberry pi) with usb connectivity and touch screen display. There is linux based ms dashboards too.

[Grintch]

I actually have an AimSport MXL Pista that I previously had in my '08 STI Time Attack car. I like that one because of the datalogging cababilities. The Subaru harness is only around $100, IIRC.

Does AIM support the pre-CAN Subaru's? My understanding is that the change over happened in '07 or 08, which means most potential doners will have the old style data format.

[JeromeS13]

Does AIM support the pre-CAN Subaru's? My understanding is that the change over happened in '07 or 08, which means most potential doners will have the old style data format.

The MXL Plug-n-Play harness supports the 1999+ Subarus.

http://www.aim-sportline.com/download/doc/eng/mxl/MXL_Subaru_P&P_104_eng.pdf

[alpine227]

I have complied Megatunix on a PCDUINO single board computer with a 7" touch screen working well. I am going to try and strip down Megatunix to a guage only version to free up memory. I just built a User interface in Glade to use the I/Os on the PCDUINO to control wipers, lights, navigation system, Traction control (off, normal, sport, race) fuel/spark map switching, datalogging (camera/2axis accelerometer/gps speedo) and the radio now the painful job of coding it.

[Wayne Presley]

I sell the AIM sport dashes, dataloggers and other products.