NRG Innovations parts for the 818 [Archive]

ehansen007

06-25-2013, 05:31 PM

Hey guys,

I became a vendor for NRG when I sold the Quick Flip adapter for the Hot Rod. They've got some neat parts for tuner cars which would translate over to the 818 nicely (I think). They have a good reputation for quality amongst the crowd. I'm considering offering up their products on my site for you guys so I'm wondering which products you might like to see. If you could take a look at their site and let me know I would appreciate it. I'll be sure to beat the prices out there by a few bucks and I sure wouldn't mind the business. I think the 310 seats would be a hit. They have fiberglass and Carbon Fiber. I just need to make sure they fit. They look very similar to the GTM seats but not sure about the shoulder width. They also have Steering wheels, quick releases, shift knobs, etc. Great quality with great pricing. So, again, let me know and I'll see if it's worth doing.

https://www.getnrg.com/

http://www.livesockets.com/shop/assets/images/NRG-RSC-310.jpg

Canadian818

06-25-2013, 06:31 PM

I didn't realize how many nice stuff NRG has. I really like the seats, but it looks like it'll only work with 4pt harness. I personally can't decide if I want a FIA approved seat or not, or if a 4pt harness is enough. 12 pounds for $699, that's impressive. I also really like the quick tilt hub and D-shaped steering wheel. I will no doubt be in touch over the winter.

wleehendrick

06-25-2013, 06:47 PM

I'll be going with aftermarket seats and was leaning towards Corbeau FX1-Pro; these look like a nice alternative and I would definitely consider them it fitment is no issue. I also need to source a steering wheel and harnesses.

metalmaker12

06-25-2013, 06:52 PM

I like there stuff and have used there seats in a couple cars I have owned, decent stuff, good price. I got the glass 310's and I would again, 699 per seat for just carbon, ah 250 is better. I believe their made in china

Frank818

06-25-2013, 07:59 PM

I have NRG on my list of parts. Don't know which ones yet.

NRG, yeah NRG, not to mix with NRE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aewbo-Orb3M) lollll

Turboguy

06-25-2013, 09:21 PM

Where are their seats manufactured? I heard that a lot of the copy-cat seat companies are manufacturing in china.

bnr32jason

06-26-2013, 03:46 AM

I'll be running a NRG hub and quick release with a Momo Monte Carlo 350mm wheel. I've considered the NRG FRP fixed back seats, but haven't read too much about their safety and quality. Still researching.

ehansen007

06-26-2013, 10:30 AM

Thanks guys. I'll look into setting this up for resale. Here is a review I got on the seats from one Subie owner. I've seen all their gear mulitiple times at SEMA and they are good blend of quality/cost. I don't know that it will all be momo or sparco quality but they are half the price as well.

http://www.iwsti.com/forums/gd-interior/184072-nrg-carbon-fiber-seat-review-pics-added.html

They have some cam buckle 4 and 6 point harnesses to go with the seats too.

https://www.getnrg.com/files/node_images/SBH-6PCBB_0.jpg

Turboguy

06-26-2013, 11:11 AM

I don't know that it will all be momo or sparco quality but they are half the price as well.

For me -on an item which could very well decide if I live or die in a crash- quality is of utmost importance.

I will only run an FIA-approved seat, and only one from a major manufacturer that is NOT made in china.

longislandwrx

06-26-2013, 11:15 AM

Do they have a submarine slot?

ehansen007

06-26-2013, 01:14 PM

Thanks guys. These seats for the the S for sure. Not really meant to replace or serve as an FIA approved racing seat and I don't see any sub-slot. If you're going to race on the road courses where hi-G's are being pulled, go with the top of the line for ultimate safety.

David Hodgkins

06-26-2013, 01:56 PM

Hey Erik,

These things have almost as much bolster as a Crown Vic!

http://www.livesockets.com/shop/assets/images/NRG-RSC-310.jpg

:D

RM1SepEx

06-26-2013, 06:18 PM

I've been looking at their leather steering wheels and hubs, I'll keep you in mind. I need to build and sit before I decide what will work best!

FFR-ADV

06-26-2013, 07:57 PM

Nice looking seats! Lots of other interesting products as well.

Cheers!

Turboguy

06-28-2013, 10:57 AM

Thanks guys. These seats for the the S for sure. Not really meant to replace or serve as an FIA approved racing seat and I don't see any sub-slot.

The FIA certification speaks to the seat passing certain loading and crash test standards. To me, that's just as important in a street driven car (818S) as it is in a race car. In fact, the way idiots are driving everywhere talking and texting on their cell phones, it could be even more important to have in a street car.

I don't want some cheap-o chinese junk jack-stand giving way when I'm under the car working. Having a seat that stands up in a crash -whether it happens on the track or on the street- is no different to me.

Canadian818

06-28-2013, 01:15 PM

I don't doubt the importance of FIA testing, but what are you afraid of happening. IMO the harness is what you don't want to cheap out on. The 818, as well as any race car, has a cage around you. The harness is pulling you tight to the cage, not the seat. The seat isn't much more than a cushion between the two rated safety items, ie; cage and harness.

Whose to say the NRG bucket wouldn't pass FIA certification? But if they went that way, what would that cost them? How much would they have to jack the price? All of a sudden the NRG CF seat is $1000+, and who would spend that on a NRG when that's sparco money. And then NRG goes flop, lol.

Oppenheimer

06-28-2013, 01:45 PM

Seatbelts do most of their work in a frontal crash. What happens if the impact is from the rear? If the seat collapses, you are flailing about, and the belts may no longer hold you in place sufficiently. Worst case, what if the seat back snaps with a jagged edge, that then causes a laceration?

All that said, people put aftermarket seats in their cars all the time (all kinds of cars), then crash them, and you don't hear a lot about seat related injuries. So it would seem this isn't the riskiest thing out there. But seat quality, and seat mounting, should definitly be something to think about during any build.

Agree about the point that its possible NRG seat would pass if they could afford to have it tested.

Canadian818

06-28-2013, 02:58 PM

StatGSR

07-01-2013, 10:50 AM

They probably can afford it, but it would force them to raise their price to market they can't compete in.

IMO, if I get hit from behind or the side and the cage fails, I'm not counting on a seat to help much.

Your missing the point a little, its not the cage the fails, its the seatback. If the seat back gives way, now your are just ragdolling between the cage and the harness, which may or may not be all that close together.

That said, many racing associations such as Nasa and SCCA allow you to run seats that are not FIA approved (or FIA seats that are expired) so long as an appropriate seat brace is installed. you can buy things like below
http://www.ioportracing.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=SBB15

or make em

http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforums/attachments/racing-and-drivers-education-forum/523024d1301068519-do-metal-seats-ultrashield-require-seat-back-braces-for-racing-nasa-p944-004.jpg
http://www.autopowerindustries.com/Images/lg/vignetteDSC_2864.jpg

so even though i am in the boat of agreeing that i want my seat to be safe and a quality piece, there are safe solutions out there besides FIA rated seats. I am still terrified by cheap reclining seats though.

Oppenheimer

07-01-2013, 11:11 AM

They probably can afford it, but it would force them to raise their price to market they can't compete in.

That is what I meant, they can't afford to do it and still compete.

ehansen007

07-08-2013, 05:10 PM

Turbo, I understand your position but with your comments, by association, you're implying that these are cheaply made Chinese junk. We buy many things from China are that are of high quality and many on the internet have stated that NRG products are of high quality. I have yet to find anything relating to their seats failing though in any forum anywhere so if you've got any proof these are poorly made, please provide it. I spoke with them and for all of the bucket seats they have sold (over 5000) they have not had one failure or lawsuit against them. As for the recliner, they have had a few of the reclining ratcheting mechanisms go bad due to defects on the early ones but they were replaced under warranty. They stated (as others have here) that if they were to go get FIA certifications they would have to charge as much as the others. I've been using their products for a while now without issue. If I get hit in the 818, there are far more things I am worried about than the seat breaking in half. Not to imply it's not safe but everything in the motorsports category comes with it's association of risk vs cost. The debate can go on forever. The 818 isn't the safest car in the world..it's never even been crash tested...but it's not keeping me from buying it. (it's a lot safer than my past motorcycles ever will be!). I know for one that these seats with a 4 point harness are going to be better than the shoulder strap and stock seats the kit recommends so I'm upgrading to the NRG seats.

THE ITALIAN

07-08-2013, 06:24 PM

Well stated!
We all buy China stuff & some of their women are HOT ! I dated 1/2 the country.
How often do you eat Chinese from the "down the street" strip mall? If it's good enough to put in your body, it's good enough to sit on (outside of racing)
I did sell my harley because it was just stupid in So Cal, the thing leaked oil when it was new and the forks were made in Mexico, I still eat tacos.

wleehendrick

07-08-2013, 07:10 PM

I don't see any sub-slot.

Although the NRG website does not specifically mention or picture a sub slot, they do offer a 6-point harness, and this video shows a slot for a 5/6 point:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ju5pHwSOpGE

That being the case, I would consider a pair of these with the harnesses for my build (an S with light track use) instead of Corbeau, which is my current plan.

Eric, I see that both you're in OC and NRG is in LA. Do you know of any place in SoCal to sit in one of these to judge size/comfort?

ehansen007

07-08-2013, 07:22 PM

That's the trick, there really isn't any place except their showroom. I'm planning on heading up there tomorrow and get an overall fit. I'll let you know when I hear back.

wleehendrick

07-08-2013, 07:44 PM

I'm planning on heading up there tomorrow and get an overall fit. I'll let you know when I hear back.

Great... I'd appreciate any additional info you can provide. The seats are pictured with side-mounts... can you also confirm that these are provided, so that they would bolt right in (or to sliders)? Also, do all the bucket models have sub slots? I do see the specs on the website (below), but would appreciate 'seat of the pants' feedback on sizing.

Thanks!

Lee

19548

Canadian818

07-08-2013, 10:08 PM

That's the trick, there really isn't any place except their showroom. I'm planning on heading up there tomorrow and get an overall fit. I'll let you know when I hear back.

Can you please check to see if the carbon buckets have the submarine slot? Thanks!

longislandwrx

07-09-2013, 05:41 AM

That video shows a sub slot. that being said would I trust them with my life? not sure.

David Hodgkins

07-09-2013, 11:01 AM

Guys, let's not take this thread off track.

I removed some posts. Turbo, if you feel like discussing FIA rules and general seat safety issues, please open another thread to do so.

EricScottZehnder

07-09-2013, 11:39 AM

longislandwrx

07-09-2013, 11:52 AM

How do you guys know how to select a seat without sitting in it? These bucket seats are only one way and a bit more upright then I am used to. I'm a tall guy so I know that I will never be able to get in a car and go without finding a happy medium.

Also, how do you figure out how to mount it? As I said, I'm tall so I assume I'd have to recline it slightly (the whole thing, not just the back). How do you mount a seat in a way that you can then take it out and test it and then make adjustments? It seems like you'd have to drill holes to do any kind of mounting and you certainly can't drill a TON of holes as you figure out what you like.

The side mount brackets most of these seats use are pitch and height adjustable. no need to drill extra holes. My seats will LIKELY be on sliders, so that takes care of the front and back adjustment. The only thing you really need to make sure you do is get the right width seat so your rear end fits snug and comfortable. usually if you are bigger than a 34 inch waist you need the larger gt? sizes

side mounts on seat:

19587

These guys even have front to back adjustments on the bracket so if you don't use sliders, you'll still have adjustment:

19588

Frank818

07-09-2013, 12:08 PM

Are you using the sliders from the WRX donor?

Looks like a Status Standard Ring FIA seat. I like it, but I don't like the price. :) But they have a lot of configuration options, which is nice.

longislandwrx

07-09-2013, 12:29 PM

Probably jumped the gun there I am still on the fence about sliders... the FIA rule on sliders is tricky and enforced sparingly.

If I do go that route I don't know which sliders I will use as I haven't seen the manual yet that talks about seat mounting.

The sparco HD ones are nice, but the oem ones have undergone more crash testing. I'll let you know when I get there.

Frank818

07-09-2013, 12:40 PM

Ok you are one following the FIA rules, I see.
On Status site they offer the seat base custom made for a specific car. That's harder when it comes for the 818.

But again those Status are quite nice, every piece of foam is held by big velcros and can easily be removed. Even the fabric.

It seems a CF ready-to-install-in-car setup (brackets, sliders, etc.) weighs about 33lbs compared to 44lbs for some VW GTI seats that I have seen both on the scale on a Status seat review http://squarespokes.com/08/review-status-racing-ring-seat/

wleehendrick

07-09-2013, 01:09 PM

The only thing you really need to make sure you do is get the right width seat so your rear end fits snug and comfortable. usually if you are bigger than a 34 inch waist you need the larger gt? sizes

Agreed, I also plan on fixed back buckets with side mounts, and perhaps sliders. As you described, this takes care of the critical adjustments, except for seat size. Based on specs, the NRG seats appear smaller in comparison to others (Corbeau, for example). If I don't have the opportunity to plant my butt in my seat of choice before purchasing, I'll at least mock up the dimensions with cardboard and duct tape to verify sizing.

ehansen007

07-09-2013, 06:42 PM

Hey guys, I went by the shop today and inspected the seats very thoroughly and the quality was top notch. The fiberglass was very rigid and thick. They have the 300 seat which is good to about a 32" waist, then the 310 up to about 36", and then the large which is well, maybe a 40"? . :) The seats come with side mounts and sliders but I have no experience with them. They are standard steel. Basic adjustment can be done with the brackets to define how much tilt you want. The owner was there and he was telling me that he's made a lot of trips to China and Taiwan this year to check quality control. And all buckets come with a sub slot. Hope that helps.

Frank818

07-09-2013, 06:56 PM

So at $250 you get the side mounts and sliders?

Do we have color choices and/or fabric material choices? I couldn't really see on the website...

wleehendrick

07-09-2013, 07:08 PM

Thanks for the info... it all sounds good, and I'm really considering a pair of the fiberglass buckets. I'll mock-up the bolster width according to the spec sheet to determine if I want a small or medium.

ehansen007

07-09-2013, 09:26 PM

As Henry Ford said. "They come in any color you want..as long as its black". :) they have a pretty nice set of carbon fiber mirrors as well as some dandy wings too!! More to come.

ehansen007

07-10-2013, 09:40 PM

I just came across these carbon mirrors for the WRX which are pretty sweet. Didn't know they carried these.

https://www.getnrg.com/files/node_images/CARBM200.jpg

Erik W. Treves

07-10-2013, 09:49 PM

oh sweet...one of those came on my donor..the other one was ripped off when it flipped...price please?

RM1SepEx

07-11-2013, 05:29 AM

F5 removed the triangle piece on the stock mirrors to get them to look good... they then mounted only the mirror on flat stock braces. Those CF ones are 1 piece, not sure how they will match up in the windshield area. Remember how they were kind of chopped off on the SEMA car?

randy808

07-12-2013, 02:39 PM

19666what do you guys think about this set up? Can you get this as well?

Zodiac

07-12-2013, 04:18 PM

nice steering wheel. I've been looking at a bunch but I would like to keep the airbag and kind find any aftermarket ones which still use one. Also if anyone knows anything about the harness? I've been reading a lot and I know you need to make sure you install it properly in height and everything but I've been seeing a lot that they aren't recommended if you're using it for daily driving. Should I stick with the stock seatbelt if I plan to daily drive this and just track it a few times a year?

wildbill

07-12-2013, 04:21 PM

SkiRideDrive

07-12-2013, 04:27 PM

19666what do you guys think about this set up? Can you get this as well?

This setup looks nice. One thing I was just thinking about: since the wheel mount may have been designed with the wrx seats in mind, what happens when you bolt a race bucket to the floor of the chassis? Will the wheel be mounted far too high? And will this be an easy fix?

ehansen007

07-12-2013, 04:43 PM

19666what do you guys think about this set up? Can you get this as well?

Sure, I can get any NRG stuff you need. As far as the seat/wheel relationship, I felt like the stock seat would be to high when I saw it at SEMA. The only time I've sat in the car is with the GTM seats which are floor buckets and the wheel felt right and there was plenty of room to get into the seat rather than having to slide under the wheel. The seats will have some adjustment in the brackets in them as well.

carbon fiber

07-12-2013, 04:47 PM

Zodiac

07-12-2013, 04:51 PM

you're not gonna want to use the airbag. the sensors for deployment are pretty specific to the car they were designed for. (not an 818) the harnesses and rollcage are better than the airbag anyway. when's the last time you saw an airbag in a racecar?

ah ok i didn't even think about them being so specefic to a car. and yea i know the harness will be better for the track but since 95% of my time I'm gonna be daily driving and I read about them not being intended for daily use I wasn't sure if I should get one or not. Looking at the NRG 4 point camlock version

carbon fiber

07-12-2013, 04:59 PM

I've got harnesses in all my cars. you get used to them. I feel like I don't have any protection when wearing a regular seat belt after using harnesses for so long. really keeps you in the seat when you're at the track too.

GUNS

07-12-2013, 04:59 PM

Any thoughts on what mounts to use for aftermarkets seats?

carbon fiber

07-12-2013, 05:03 PM

I use side mounts on composite seats, but they are non- adjustable. (without removing bolts) they keep the seat as low as possible though.

Frank818

07-12-2013, 05:14 PM

This setup looks nice. One thing I was just thinking about: since the wheel mount may have been designed with the wrx seats in mind, what happens when you bolt a race bucket to the floor of the chassis? Will the wheel be mounted far too high? And will this be an easy fix?

Can the steering column be height adjustable?

Frank818

07-12-2013, 05:20 PM

I agree with carbon kevlar guy, for years I used a 4-point harness in a car I was driving many times a week. The harness was keeping me in place much better than the stock belt, I felt more secured. When I came back to the oem belt, I had a bad feeling. You really get used to it and it's a tidy longer to attach and clip. :) But the feeling is nice.

JeromeS13

07-12-2013, 05:40 PM

You have to be extremely careful if you're using aftermarket seatbelts. Most 4 point belts are not designed properly, and can actually cause more harm than good in instance of a front impact (due to no anti-submarine belt). If you're going to run a stock-ish seat, maintain the stock seatbelt. If you're using a good quality aftermarket bucket seat, use a 5 or 6 point, properly installed harness. If you unsure about the proper installation of a harness, you can download and review the NASA CCR's (para 15.5) located at http://www.nasaproracing.com/rules/ccr.pdf. These should be followed ANYTIME, especially when using them for daily driving.

Frank818

07-12-2013, 05:53 PM

Why 4-point wouldn't be good in a bucket seat designed to accept 4-5-6-point?

JeromeS13

07-12-2013, 06:00 PM

Why 4-point wouldn't be good in a bucket seat designed to accept 4-5-6-point?

In the event of a crash, you could slide under and out of the harness. There are very few properly designed 4point belts out there.

Frank818

07-12-2013, 06:04 PM

Yeah that's what I thought. But then again, a 3-point OEM belt isn't any better, you could also slide under and out.

JeromeS13

07-12-2013, 06:05 PM

This is actually a pretty decent article on safety belts. (Disregard the picture below section 5... That harness is NOT properly installed and would actually compress the spine in an accident...)

http://www.ogracing.com/blog/2013/02/6-things-you-need-to-consider-before-buying-harnesses/

Frank818

07-12-2013, 06:15 PM

Yes, pretty interesting, a lot of comparisons. I'll surely now take that into account and will read it carefully.

I don't want to have an accident. lolll

SkiRideDrive

07-12-2013, 08:09 PM

Sure, I can get any NRG stuff you need. As far as the seat/wheel relationship, I felt like the stock seat would be to high when I saw it at SEMA. The only time I've sat in the car is with the GTM seats which are floor buckets and the wheel felt right and there was plenty of room to get into the seat rather than having to slide under the wheel. The seats will have some adjustment in the brackets in them as well.

Thanks for chiming in. That is good to hear.

Slatt

07-12-2013, 10:50 PM

Can the steering column be height adjustable?

A look at some chassis photos makes it appear the factory height adjustment is still there.

SkiRideDrive

07-12-2013, 11:12 PM

A look at some chassis photos makes it appear the factory height adjustment is still there.

Would that be retained with a race wheel and hub? I am assuming yes but not how the adjuster is arranged.

Slatt

07-12-2013, 11:33 PM

The height adjustment for 2003 has a locking lever on the left of the column below the controls stalk. The actual clamping is part of the same bracket assembly which bolts to the 818 frame. It is all well forward of the hub. So ya, I think you are good to go.

Here's a link to a picture by longislandwrx from the open house. http://s139.photobucket.com/user/macrokilla/media/FF%20Open%20House/419.jpg.html?sort=3&o=7

Frank818

07-13-2013, 12:16 PM

If it is height adjustable, that may help quite a lot.

I guess Erik and Wayne can confirm that soon.

07FIREBLADE

07-13-2013, 04:24 PM

It will be height adjustable. Just pulled my steering column 20 mins ago...

mspice

07-14-2013, 05:59 PM

Forgive my ignorance, what is required to use one of the steering wheels? Do you simply remove the air bag portion to get to the nut on the steering column and remove the factory one, leaving the thicker portion with the levers and controls on it?

EDIT: after watching some videos on youtube, I'd suspect that one would remove the old steering wheel, perhaps install an adapter if it wasn't made for the Impreza/WRX, then install a new one. The only problem for me is that I can't get my steering wheel off to see what it would be like. I found steering wheel pullers on amazon. I guess I'll wait until I have the steering stuff on the actual kit car, try again, and get a steering wheel puller if I need to.

ehansen007

07-15-2013, 05:21 PM

You'll need the adapter for sure. The wheel just comes off with a simple puller ($10 at Pep Boys) once the airbag is removed CAREFULLY!. From the base of the wheel where it buts against the column to the grip is about 4 1/2" So you could do an adapter, quick release, and a wheel and be right there. Or just the adapter to a 3" dish wheel, etc. They have a lot of different options.

GUNS

07-17-2013, 05:38 PM

Just received my Gen 2.5 quick release and short hub. Initial impressions are great, I'll provide more details when I have time to install it. I bought these through ehansen007 and it was a great experience! He was great to work with and very timely/helpful. I highly recommend anyone wanting NRG parts to utilize him. Just make sure you have enough $$$ in your Paypal account. I had to pay with a credit card through Paypal which slaps him with the fees and kind of screws him. Sorry again!

ehansen007

07-18-2013, 10:38 AM

oh sweet...one of those came on my donor..the other one was ripped off when it flipped...price please?

Let's make sure they will fit first. As on other member said, it looks like they changed the mount. Bummer I hope I can still figure something out because they look great.

Xusia

07-18-2013, 11:24 AM

Just a quick note about Paypal. If you use a bank account as your funding source - rather than a credit card - you avoid all kinds of fees and limits. Paypal doesn't advertise this, nor do they make it easy to set up (because people using credit cards as a funding source generates profit for them, whereas a bank account funding source does not), but you can do it. It's been a while since I did it, but I think the process takes about an hour of total time to complete spread over 3 days (most at the beginning).

Frank818

07-18-2013, 11:50 AM

Fees for the seller?
Cuz I (buyer) don't pay fees when I use my credit card as the funding source. I get charged the amount of what I bought (+ I pay a margin on the exchange rate when I buy in a different currency, but I've never heard the seller being charged if I use my credit card as the source).

Xusia

07-18-2013, 01:09 PM

Yes, the CC fee is on the seller's side (hence the apology above). The amount depends on the type of account the seller has. Typically, a personal account allows a seller to receive a small number of payments funded with a CC. After that, the fees kick in, and they can really cut into the typically smaller margins of the "home" seller. You can upgrade to a business account, of course, but then you are paying fees on that. If you sell a lot of things, it's worth looking into because it can be cheaper.

My thought was that if I let people know, we could keep the costs low for everyone (seller can have a personal Paypal account, buyer can use bank account for funding). Everyone wins. :)

ehansen007

07-18-2013, 01:21 PM

Yeah, in this case I'm not making much on this stuff and because the buyer used a CC through Paypal, Payal has to pay the fees and they pass them onto me. So the fees were half of my profit. It's okay, I didn't tell him so it's my fault. I'll always give you guys the best price I can and we can arrange payment by check, paypal (funded by bank account), livestock, etc. Just let me know what you need and I'll get it for you. :)

Frank818

07-18-2013, 01:43 PM

Well I just learned something... tnx for the heads up.

Actually ehansen007 I do need something. I need a buyer for my car to finance part of the 818 project, can you get that for me? lolll Kidding. :)

mrvwcastner

07-22-2013, 12:16 AM

As a buyer using Paypal you are safest using CC as funding source. You then have 2 companies backing you when dispute arises. Also you are best off only dealing with verified seller or buyer & only shipping to verified address. Just general safety rules. Paypal has also started charging you for giving "gift" too many people cheating them so just don't bother they get 3% from someone.