Basic and Complete kit parts & options lists?

[Rusty_S85]

I am wondering have they been updated? I dont see glass rear hatch listed but the same thing from when I was looking at the coupes last year. Like wise what about the fuel cell? I had my hopes on going the fuel cell route but I dont even see the fuel cell listed anymore in the Factory Five store section.

[Matt's]

Hello Rusty,

Sorry if this is too little too late, but I talked to a couple of the guys at FFR today, and brought up the fuel cell question myself. Apparently they do not currently offer a specific fuel cell for the Coupe. The Complete kit currently comes with Mustang style tanks. I'm sure (and they agreed) that a fuel cell can be installed easy enough, one way or another, but it's not an option to buy from them currently.

[riptide motorsport]

I believe that the rear glass is part of the kit now, option for us earlier guys that have plexi..........Steven

[Matt's]

Sorry, fuel cell caught my eye, missed the rear glass. Riptide is correct, both the basic and complete Coupe kits now include the glass rear hatch standard, those who already have older coupes can retrofit the new glass. Please see Dave's post with video about the upgrade if you have an older Coupe, very nice of them to offer it at a discount for those that have an older model!

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?1237-New-Coupe-Glass-Retro-Fit-Information

[Rusty_S85]

Sorry bout the late reply, work called and have been rethinking on getting a kit car, especially a coupe.

Would like to get one still but it is a lot of money considering the upgrades and the required retrain components. The fuel cell issue also hurt interest some cause at one time they offered a fuel safe 20 gallon fuel cell on the form online.

I have $2500 put away from work but $16k - 18k for the kit is on the high side for me.

[riptide motorsport]

Well the price of admission has never changed.

[Rusty_S85]

Well the price of admission has never changed.

No, but the options has changed. As I said thing that is really pushing me further to rethink is the lack of the fuel cell option. I know as a fact the cell was offered for the coupe on the website to be bought. With the economy the way it is I just cant justify spending $40,000 total to build a kit car that would probably not even sell for $25,000 if I had to sell it.

So sure, price has never changed but alot of other things has changed. For instance I am putting the vehicle together and going through the trouble of fitting pieces together and growing older has me seeing that the cost of the parts is not really worth it in the end. Especially for the cost of the coupe I could pick up two restored model T`s for the cost of the coupe kit. Sure a Model T wouldnt be as flashy or as fast as a coupe but the Model T has something the coupe wont have and that is a history.

As I weigh my options thinking in this economy and being older and wiser than I was when I first found out about factory five, I just think I would much rather pick up real production cars with history than building a kit car. I know I have been wanting a DMC-12 for a long time and for the cost of the kit I could buy a DMC certified pre-owned for the same price that has 30,000 miles on it.

[rj35pj]

Rusty, Your points are valid, but having just purchased a coupe kit, it all comes down to what you want. I have had streetrods for over 20 years and they are great but now I'm looking for raw performance and something seen even less often than my 1935 Plymouths. I once thought about a Viper or Corvette, it just comes down to buying or building what you want. Any car is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it. It sounds to me like you are trying to talk yourself out of building a coupe and again that is your decision. As far as history our coupes have the cloest thing to history that many of us can afford considering the few originals sell in the millions, I am more than happy with a kit that "looks" like the "real" thing and out performs the real thing. :)
Good luck with what ever you decide, I'm just glad to finally be a part of this group.

[riptide motorsport]

You can rationalize anything anyway you want. Cars are commodities not investments

[Rusty_S85]

Rusty, Your points are valid, but having just purchased a coupe kit, it all comes down to what you want. I have had streetrods for over 20 years and they are great but now I'm looking for raw performance and something seen even less often than my 1935 Plymouths. I once thought about a Viper or Corvette, it just comes down to buying or building what you want. Any car is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it. It sounds to me like you are trying to talk yourself out of building a coupe and again that is your decision. As far as history our coupes have the cloest thing to history that many of us can afford considering the few originals sell in the millions, I am more than happy with a kit that "looks" like the "real" thing and out performs the real thing. :)
Good luck with what ever you decide, I'm just glad to finally be a part of this group.

It's not that I try to talk myself out of getting a coupe. If money wasn't a concern is get one. With the economy the way it is and how much money I'm making I just can't justify this expense for a investment that wouldn't hold its value. Sure some say its a commodity but a humidity is also sold for a profit which a kit car like this is like a new car and doesn't hold its value that well.

What would really help me in getting one is if I could get factory five to keep the stuff is never use such as the wiring harness, the toggle switches and the gauges for example and credit me the value of those items and end up with a cheaper kit. There are some things I want to use but its wasteful to have parts is never use.

[rj35pj]

I believe you can delete anything out of the kit that you wish. I am not getting the manual rack with my kit because I am going to go power steering. I substituted the leather wheel for the wooden one etc.... you don't even have to have it powder coated if you don't want it. Talk with them I was very impressed by how personable they were and how they were willing to work with me.

[Hankl]

The other side is, if they don't allow a deletion of some parts, those parts have value to other builders, and can be sold here or E-Bay. I've done it, and you can recoup 60-75% of the cost of the part.

Hank :cool:

[Rusty_S85]

I believe you can delete anything out of the kit that you wish. I am not getting the manual rack with my kit because I am going to go power steering. I substituted the leather wheel for the wooden one etc.... you don't even have to have it powder coated if you don't want it. Talk with them I was very impressed by how personable they were and how they were willing to work with me.

I know they work with people. I know I want the most basic parts. Don't need the fuse box and harness. If its still the Ron Francis harness I know it will be around $500 for that alone. The gauges I think free sells them for $299 with the oil temp gauge. I don't want powder coated frame, I can have it done locally for less. The switches I don't need nor the indicator lights.

In the end if I could get the coupe down to around $10,000 to $12,000 cutting out what I wouldn't use I could do that. I don't mind sinking money into it on the long run but in this economy and high prices on everything I am reluctant to jump for even 10k to 12k. Down the road sure. But i will have to review what the basic kit comes with and see what I can cut. I know if I build one it will be built how I would have built the racing coupe in the 60s.


The other side is, if they don't allow a deletion of some parts, those parts have value to other builders, and can be sold here or E-Bay. I've done it, and you can recoup 60-75% of the cost of the part.

Hank :cool:

Really? I didn't expect there to be a market for selling the excess parts out. Would be better to cut the excess now that way I can get the irs setup with out shooting the end price up close to 18k.



I just reviewed the list and this is what I came up with.

The tubular control arms for $399, the irs upgrade for $2199, and the 18:1 manual rack for a total of $17,887.

The things I would omit is the harness, the toggle switches, the brake and fuel lines, the overflow tank with cap, the red/green/blue indicators, on-off switch, the 7 autometer gauges, the fabric headliner, stainless steel shifted handle and knob, pedal box adapter and accelerator cable.

I don't know how much all these items are worth but I am thinking if I could get a good discount where maybe I get an irs upgrade and end up with a price tag of around $14,000 or little less is be happy. Is even consider dropping the supplied rack adapter and rack and go with an supermarket manual rack. Would even get rid of the flex hose for the cooling system and weld up a hard line system.

[Hankl]

Rusty,

I see where you're trying to go, but I feel in the long run FFR is not going to cut down the price to where you want it. You need to figure that what the single items list at, is not the discount you'll receive. If the Ron Francis wiring cost $500 retail, I don't think the saving to you would be more than maybe $400. They need to make a profit on things, and their cost might be the discount you'll get, so you need to readjust your expectations.


The things I would omit is the harness, the toggle switches, the brake and fuel lines, the overflow tank with cap, the red/green/blue indicators, on-off switch, the 7 autometer gauges, the fabric headliner, stainless steel shifted handle and knob, pedal box adapter and accelerator cable.

I don't think its in FFR's best interest to par down a kit with this kind of list, I know I wouldn't if it was my company.

The more I read the post above, the more I think you have to ask your self the hard question. Can I, or Can't I afford to build something like this right now?

THESE CARS ARE NOT INVESTMENTS! They are a luxury that will depreciate in time, pure and simple. We only build them because we want them, and find a way to afford them within our respective budget.

No where in this equation should a family be put into financial hardship, ever!

Hank :cool:

[Rusty_S85]

Rusty,

I see where you're trying to go, but I feel in the long run FFR is not going to cut down the price to where you want it. You need to figure that what the single items list at, is not the discount you'll receive. If the Ron Francis wiring cost $500 retail, I don't think the saving to you would be more than maybe $400. They need to make a profit on things, and their cost might be the discount you'll get, so you need to readjust your expectations.



I don't think its in FFR's best interest to par down a kit with this kind of list, I know I wouldn't if it was my company.

The more I read the post above, the more I think you have to ask your self the hard question. Can I, or Can't I afford to build something like this right now?

THESE CARS ARE NOT INVESTMENTS! They are a luxury that will depreciate in time, pure and simple. We only build them because we want them, and find a way to afford them within our respective budget.

No where in this equation should a family be put into financial hardship, ever!

Hank :cool:

I am not wanting to get rid of those items all with the intent of saving money only. I am building my own fusebox seeing as I would want to go with a vintage race car setup. So I cant justify spending for a prebuilt fusebox that I might will have to modify to work with my settings when I can save money by building my own. The fuel lines are for the mustang fuel tank which I wouldnt use so theres no point in having fuel lines when I can buy the correct hardline fuel line and use my AN flaring tool and bend and flare my own lines. The brake lines are the same way, I would be using wilwood setup instead of mustang so the lines with the kit would be not used. Then theres the expansion tank, I planned on using a Harrison burp tank like the orignals used instead of what is supplied with the kit, the mustang pedal box adapter isnt needed since I am going with the wilwood pedals and I can weld up my own adapter if need be. The throttle cable isnt needed because if I go the fuel injection route like I wanted to I probably will have to replace it for being too short. Why should I pay for a stainless steel shifter knob when I was going to go with a black hurst knob. Why pay for a stainless steel shifter handle when I was going to go with a hurst short throw shifter. Its just seems illogical for me to obtain a kit and pay for parts that I wont use. Sure I could sell them privately for up to 75% of the cost, but I think we both would win if FFR would keep the items I dont need cut me slack and wave the cost of those items and give me what I will use instead of 90% of what I will use and 10% of what will not be used.

The whole point of omitting said items isnt to come back and say hey FFR products are crap cause I omitted stuff to save a buck and didnt know what I am doing. I know what I am doing and I know what I am wanting. If they wouldnt be willing to work with me well then I guess FFR products are not for me then. I mean after all I am giving them business and I know what I want and what I plan to do and I would expect them as a business to work with me and get me what I need. Thats like the standard autometer gauges, yea I could use that but I would prefer to have custom gauges made by speedhut than use those or the vintage gauges. I just wanted to make myself clear cause maybe my intentions were obscure.

Sure I know I shouldnt expect FFR to cut the prices as much as I would like, but if I could get the kit minus those parts above I wont be using, get it with the tubular lower arms the IRS upgrade out back (might even omit that even and go with a solid 8.8 axle, dont recall the orignal coupes having irs) and the manual rack (which I might even omit as well in the end) and get all that for a total of around $15,000 - $15,500 I would go for that. Its not about screwing FFR, its about getting for as cheap as possible. Cutting my costs as much as possible by eliminating the fat that I dont need.

[Jeff Kleiner]

Several years ago FFR would omit and allow credit for a few selected standard items (seats were one of the most frequently deleted) however the credit was nowhere near their listed price, maybe 50% at best. I do not believe they do that any longer simply because it becomes a nightmare for inventory control. Even if taking credit is an option, as has already been mentioned you'd be money ahead to sell unused parts outright.

Jeff

[riptide motorsport]

Rusty name another company, say like Ford , willing to bend over backwards for you like you are whining about, which in my opinion has become very tiresome and somewhat immature. , gOod luck finding what your looking for. Try shell valley, see if you can work your magic with them. or lonestar classics, mabey they'll cater to your every whim. Sincerely: steven

[Hankl]

Rusty,

First off, let me say that I totally understand your direction, but there is not a bridge to it from here. A lot of the people here know me as, "The Never Ending Builder" for a reason. The joke from several of the Coupe guys that I see regularly is that the only thing from my Coupe that is original is the 4" tubes. I've changed virtually all parts of the Coupe, almost nothing exist from the "Original" parts package, the Aluminum panels are all custom, as is most of the suspension. I can see wanting it "Your Way", but that can only come after you have the kit, then it's yours to modify as you see fit. As I said above, your best bet is with selling off many of the parts you don't need, search the "For Sale" section, you'll see people asking for gauge packages, etc.

As to Steven's remark, I feel thats a little brutal, but he does have a point.

Hank :cool: