Observations, data, discussions from the Open house

[cmcintyre]

Jim Schenck -

Windshield wipers in 3-6 months
Heater - a vintage (?) setup
Top Tier Automotive press was there to do an article
“Wookie” changes (fuel tank, pedal placement0 “under discussion”
Carbon headrest covers also under discussion as options

Jesper-
-Intercooler venting at outboard shoulders. Ducting will be provided.Works as well as the WRX due to lower pressure and greater flow below the cooler.

Observations
- Shift throw tight and short (1-2 is maybe 4”)
-6’ 1”, normal torso, my legs are bent but comfortable. GTM seats.
-Broomstick check for helmet is OK
-Front license plate was tried at left corner. Brake “vents” can be cut or not.
-Dimensions (tape measure on the floor, eyballed).
69” wide, fender flare to fender flare
154” long, including splitter
43” tall at windshield
-Looks like trunk could be fabricated (and insulated) for rear over tranny/exhaust.
-Two very different diffusers, pics to follow.
-Tire and wheel size on the S:
Front - 215/45 17
Rear - 255/35 18

Video of roll in and more detail pics to follow.

[wleehendrick]

Great, thanks for all the info! By carbon 'headrest covers' I assume you mean the speedhumps?

I'm blown away by the exterior, but have to admit a touch disappointed by the interior. The red SEMA car had door panels, etc... and I was expecting more polish, not less (i.e. exposed rivets). This is by no means a nitpick or dealbreaker for me, and I'm not expecting OEM level of interior fit-n-finish. I'm sure some to the cottage industry aftermarket will address this, and with some time and money builders can do whatever they want. It just means a little extra work to get the inside sorted the way I want it, but this can always be done after she's on the road. I can't wait til my October delivery date!

[RelfF2]

Thanks! 6'1'' with gtm seats passes the broomstick test!? This would be the best news of the day if true. Hoping there's a pic...

[flytosail]

Thanks for the update, especially about the front plate and trunk area.

[bnr32jason]

Great, thanks for all the info! By carbon 'headrest covers' I assume you mean the speedhumps?

I'm blown away by the exterior, but have to admit a touch disappointed by the interior. The red SEMA car had door panels, etc... and I was expecting more polish, not less (i.e. exposed rivets). This is by no means a nitpick or dealbreaker for me, and I'm not expecting OEM level of interior fit-n-finish. I'm sure some to the cottage industry aftermarket will address this, and with some time and money builders can do whatever they want. It just means a little extra work to get the inside sorted the way I want it, but this can always be done after she's on the road. I can't wait til my October delivery date!

Interior fit and finish is pretty important to me as well, especially if I'm going to make this a semi-daily driver. So I'm going to sacrifice a little weight (15-20lbs) with strategically placed sound deadening in the floor. Also I will be covering anything that's bare aluminum with either leather, vinyl, or alcantara depending on what kind of a look I decide to go for.

[bnr32jason]

43” tall at windshield


That's makes it 6" shorter than a new MX-5! :eek:

[IMPREZvWRX]

OK, so my car is 6" narrower, 10" taller, and nearly 1300 lbs heavier. This should be a pretty good upgrade!

Any mention of fuel capacity? It's a 110 mile round trip to my autox site, (plus whatever I use during the event) and it doesn't look like I'll have a place to put my fuel cans. I'm gonna need a support vehicle!

[RM1SepEx]

13 gallons +/-

[cmcintyre]

Re: The Interior, it was obvious that there was a major thrash to get the car ready. I don't doubt that interior details like carpet were on the nice to have list. Heck, one of the door handles came adrift as people piled in and out of the car.

[Mechie3]

So the carpet comes with the kit and it was on their "nice to have ready in time" list or carpet is just on the "nice to have in general" list? Some of the square edged aluminum bits do look a little homegrown.

I'm wondering how that downpipe exhaust exit (the tail end) fits with aftermarket pipes. I have a shorty downpipe, but it looks longer than the short section of the 06 pipe. I think it was designed to work with 02-05 mid pipes, so maybe they have different length tail ends?

04 downpipe
http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd309/rajito/Exhaust%20FS/IMG_0472.jpg

06 downpipe (and what was shown in a picture, note where it bolts apart)
http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb219/bill4458/DSC_0054.jpg

My aftermarket shorty downpipe:
http://www.daddysscp.com/v/vspfiles/photos/SW1000-3-2T.jpg

[joshuo]

I think the car looks fantastic and matured a lot from the prototypes!
Is anyone else bothered by the strip of aluminum that folds over the top of the door? I feel it breaks up the beltline of the car.
I hope there's a way to tuck that panel under the skin rather than over it..

[Mechie3]

Almost forgot: the front brake cutouts. Are these an option from FFR, a DIY cut with provided template and backing mesh/plate, or a do it on your own custom piece?

[RM1SepEx]

Yes, need to do something about that strip, will be burning your arms on a hot sunny day...

It's obvious that we can all do a ton to improve interior fit and finish... The cutout for more arm room in the door just doesn't look right, too many exposed rivets and sharp edges etc... I can play with my little 30 inch brake/shear and do something "cleaner" It could also be made much better if I used a bead machine to inset the edge so it sits in the door panel vs on top of it...

A simple upholstery job could cover a ton of stuff up as well...

[Canadian818]

I think the car looks fantastic and matured a lot from the prototypes!
Is anyone else bothered by the strip of aluminum that folds over the top of the door? I feel it breaks up the beltline of the car.
I hope there's a way to tuck that panel under the skin rather than over it..

I agree it doesn't look right. But once there's some roll up windows you could cover it with leather or fabric and it would be on the inside of the window.

[Samiam1017]

I agree it doesn't look right. But once there's some roll up windows you could cover it with leather or fabric and it would be on the inside of the window.

Any talk of when roll up windows will be available?

[wallace18]

Did anyone find out when or if Red or Blue will be offered. No offense to those who like white but, I would have to paint mine. White just does not do it for me.

[longislandwrx]

Things I Picked up talking to FFR et al:

The R will come with a seat/harness/adjustable shocks

The R will not come with a carbon dash... too difficult to produce

The assembly manual is half complete

the front brake ducts had grills and aluminum trim piece, so they are def part of the kit and will most likely come with a template.



I did not care for the gtm seats as all... they felt way too reclined for my tastes

[C.Plavan]

Things I Picked up talking to FFR et al:

The R will come with a seat/harness/adjustable shocks

The R will not come with a carbon dash... too difficult to produce

The assembly manual is half complete

the front brake ducts had grills and aluminum trim piece, so they are def part of the kit and will most likely come with a template.



I did not care for the gtm seats as all... they felt way too reclined for my tastes

I do not want a seat/harness. I have my OWN preferences on my comfort/safety- So I do not really see that happening.

[joshuo]

I did not care for the gtm seats as all... they felt way too reclined for my tastes

Form the pictures, I'm starting to get worried if anyone over 6'2" will pass the broomstick test with helmet on the 818S, even with the reclined GTM seats...
Did anyone sit in it with a helmet and try it?

[cmcintyre]

Not with a helmet, but at 6'1", I had 1 1/2 to 2 inches of clearance. Dave said seats can be installed lower, don't know by how much.

[Racebrewer]

6' 2" with long legs. I came really close to fitting with the GTM seat.

A flatter steering wheel and the Kirkey seats would add another couple inches. Shift lever needs to move forward a tad for me.

Much better than the Fiat X19 I tried years ago that had the shifter behind my elbow............

I believe that the thermoplastic body panels will be a long way down the road, but the fiberglass was gorgeous. No "seamed" panels that I could see so just paint if needed,

John

[tks]

13 gallons +/-

That's not bad. Any idea of 818's MPG would be. How long can you go on a long Sunday drive before needing to fill up?

[bnr32jason]

All depends on your tune and how you drive. I know WRX owners pushing 30mpg out even with light mods. I also know guys averaging half that. But our 818's are going to be in the neighborhood of 1300lbs (~40%) lighter. I think even on a mild performance tune you could still achieve 30mpg depending how you drive it and your gearing.

[wleehendrick]

Any idea of 818's MPG would be.

Highway mileage won't be that much better than the donor, since I wouldn't expect the rolling resistance and aero drag of the 818 to be significantly less than a WRX. The lighter weight, however, will make mean much better mileage in stop and go conditions, so I expect better than 30mpg is achievable in either case. If you're hard on the throttle and brakes with a modded motor in the twisties or track, however, I'm sure it'll drop well under 20mpg.

[timmy318]

That's not bad. Any idea of 818's MPG would be. How long can you go on a long Sunday drive before needing to fill up?

I'd say that you would average about 20-25 MPG on average (that accounts for mostly street driving, and a little bit of highway). Also, that's also excluding "playing" with the throttle (it's going to be so hard to do with that car). Depends on how much the tank holds and the actually fuel economy of the vehicle. If it holds 13 gallons and does 25 mpg you'll get around 325 miles outa your tank, on the other hand, if you're car averages 30 mpg then you're in for an extra 65 miles of fun per tank!

[Benji]

I'm surprised that the main observation is not the fact that it isn't 818Kg but 829Kg instead, even with GTM seats. Nit picking I know but it does kinda make the name wrong and there is a sense that we'd (or at least I'd) got the impression that 818Kg was going to happen, perhaps even with the stock Impreza seats.

Unless of course this was a 'wet' weight (it must be if it drove to the scales!)? Full/half tank?

[flytosail]

I'm surprised that the main observation is not the fact that it isn't 818Kg but 829Kg instead, even with GTM seats. Nit picking I know but it does kinda make the name wrong and there is a sense that we'd (or at least I'd) got the impression that 818Kg was going to happen, perhaps even with the stock Impreza seats.

Unless of course this was a 'wet' weight (it must be if it drove to the scales!)? Full/half tank?

Swap out the stock flywheel for a lightweight one and you are good to go. Light wheel rims will also take you down a few more pounds.

Sarcasm mode on.

So by your thought, every build would have a different number? Or maybe it could be on a LED counter on the tail of the car so as fuel is burned it would reflect the correct weight?

Sarcasm mode off.

They met their goal.

[Benji]

No, I understand that everyone else's will be different and thus the number would be 'wrong' but the whole point is, there should be a standard reference build which meets the criteria of the name in which case, no they didn't meet their goal in regards to *weight*.

Again, they could quite easily suggest that it DOES meet their goal on dry weights which I think is perfectly acceptable.

[timmy318]

I'm surprised that the main observation is not the fact that it isn't 818Kg but 829Kg instead, even with GTM seats. Nit picking I know but it does kinda make the name wrong and there is a sense that we'd (or at least I'd) got the impression that 818Kg was going to happen, perhaps even with the stock Impreza seats.

Unless of course this was a 'wet' weight (it must be if it drove to the scales!)? Full/half tank?

Let it go man. I wouldn't nit-pic at this car because IMHO and probably a whole lot of other people's FFR met and exceeded the expectations! If you need to get the name right, just do what flytosail said and attach a little LED counter on the tail of the car so as fuel is burned it would reflect the correct weight :p! But seriously, just swap out some parts for some light weight ones and you'll be good-to-go.

[Turboguy]

I look at that the 818kg target weight was just one one element of the original design "concept", the others being: safety, an under-$10K kit price that can be built for a $15K total, and a world market-capable car.


Given how big a chunk these car crazy guys bit off, I'd say they hit this one out of the park. An absolutely incredible job all around!

[JAubin]

Just for reference, that's a 1.3% difference. That's probably smaller than the error present in the scale.

[Benji]

That and everyone keeps missing my point promoting the fact that its dry weight is probably even better than 818Kg, but I'll let everyone keep trying to find other ways of trying to skew it instead of agreeing with the obvious ;)

[blueafro]

What are the final wet curb weights for the S and R models? The Road and Track image someone posted shows 2,012 lbs. (912.5 kg) for the R, and I wondered if that was accurate.

Sorry if this is covered elsewhere, I've been trying to catch up with the 818 news after several months' absence.

[metalmaker12]

818kg was a target that become a name because it is catchy. I could care if they are only 28 lbs over, which if your math was right is 830.7kg total (the 830.7 is not so catchy), but here is some more pics of production 818s suspension and bare frame, I got way more on my Cannon, but that will take a bit, plus I get my own kit soon so i might just wait to post more.

18469184701847118472184731847418475184761847718478

[spaceywilly]

The weight at open house was 1828lbs/829kg. 818kg is 1803 lbs. I don't see the big deal, 818 is a cool name and it was just a design target. Missing the weight slightly doesn't take anything away from the car. The 328i no longer has a 2.8L engine, but I don't see anyone complaining about that.

[metalmaker12]

I would say they hit the target, that is very hard to be 100% on with. Spacewilly I did not meet you or did I, well anyway, you building one.

[spaceywilly]

Eventually I will. I have a 2002 WRX and a BRZ now. Right now I need to keep the WRX going as my winter car. Hopefully in a few years I'll be able to replace the BRZ with something I can use year round and then I'll start working on the 818 fund :)

[Mechie3]

How heavy is the frame? When stewart delivers it, will I need a dolly to get it up my driveway, or will two average people be able to carry it?

[bnr32jason]

Wow, I can't believe someone is actually focusing on the weight THAT much, regardless if it's wet or dry, it doesn't matter.

818 is the name, and a conversation starter, that's it, nothing more nothing less. It would be VERY difficult to achieve exactly 818kg without making some weird compromises or running an exact amount of fuel. People doing NA builds will likely be well below 1800lbs and some might even get into the 16xx range.

Someone is gonna ask you "what's 818 mean?" Are you gonna say, "well, it was supposed to be the exact weight of the car in kilograms but Factory Five are a bunch of freaking liars, this car weighs 839.3 kilograms, I'm thinking about asking for my money back for false advertising."

Gimme a break. It's a KIT CAR, you will customize it to meetvyour own personal requirements/desires therefore everyone's is going to weigh a little different. I suppose they could have named it the "Factory Five 818 Give Or Take 100"

[Mechie3]

Well, it was 818kg 5 mins ago, but then I dropped a duece so now it's only 817.5 kg. ;)

[Jim Schenck]

FWIW: car had 5 gallons of gas, we poured one of my race cans in it to get it running for the open house.

We didn't try and put in the exact amount of gas or not show the car with some of the carbon trim to get to 818 kg exactly because this car isn't the important one, what matters is that if you want you can build your car to 1800lbs if you chose to, that was the goal behind the name.

[metalmaker12]

How heavy is the frame? When stewart delivers it, will I need a dolly to get it up my driveway, or will two average people be able to carry it?

I would say 4 guys to be safe, prob 500lbs or more is the frame.

[flytosail]

FWIW: car had 5 gallons of gas, we poured one of my race cans in it to get it running for the open house.

We didn't try and put in the exact amount of gas or not show the car with some of the carbon trim to get to 818 kg exactly because this car isn't the important one, what matters is that if you want you can build your car to 1800lbs if you chose to, that was the goal behind the name.


You guys are to be commended on how close you got. If I was that worried about weight in this car, I would only eat broiled chicken and salad until I order one and build it.

[longislandwrx]

I do not want a seat/harness. I have my OWN preferences on my comfort/safety- So I do not really see that happening.

I didn't either, but that's what they told me when I was there yesterday.


How heavy is the frame? When stewart delivers it, will I need a dolly to get it up my driveway, or will two average people be able to carry it?

two people should be able to do it. average? probably not. start working out.



ALSO... Wayne confirmed that the diagonal brace will not appear in the R. So no need for fancy connectors to make it removable.

[IMPREZvWRX]

I average 24-26 mpg on E85 which is said to be 30% less efficient. That's 6th gear highway driving with about 10 miles of autox course time mixed in. I would imagine dropping the AWD would improve that some.

I wouldn't worry at all about the extra 25 lbs. Initial talk about the BRZ mentioned 2400 pound curb weight. It came out over 2700.

[Benji]

There are some funny but entirely expected responses on this forum, especially the one about my maths being wrong and it being 830.something.

Anyway, stop being so damn defensive. This was a thread with the title (and I quote) "Observations, data, discussions from the Open house"..... so in the spirit of the thread title I observed that the data from the Open house showed that the vehicle was not 818kg's as per the original intention behind the name and the design. That was it, you then blindly waded in, got all defensive and didn't think for a second that I might actually like the 818 regardless.

Jim, thank you for letting me know how much fuel was in the tank.

Now chill out and those of you that actually ordered your 818's, enjoy and I look forward to seeing your builds on this forum (if possible)!

[apexanimal]

ALSO... Wayne confirmed that the diagonal brace will not appear in the R. So no need for fancy connectors to make it removable.

Why do it in the first place? Too diff to produce? Doesn't do that much? Other concerns?

[metalmaker12]

There are some funny but entirely expected responses on this forum, especially the one about my maths being wrong and it being 830.something.

Anyway, stop being so damn defensive. This was a thread with the title (and I quote) "Observations, data, discussions from the Open house"..... so in the spirit of the thread title I observed that the data from the Open house showed that the vehicle was not 818kg's as per the original intention behind the name and the design. That was it, you then blindly waded in, got all defensive and didn't think for a second that I might actually like the 818 regardless.

Jim, thank you for letting me know how much fuel was in the tank.

Now chill out and those of you that actually ordered your 818's, enjoy and I look forward to seeing your builds on this forum (if possible)!
Lol, I was just getting under your surface because it seemed you started a negative message. I am building my 818 very soon, payed in full and ready to rock. Being a FFR loyalist I just felt there was some FFR defense needed, since I feel the target was accomplished. I figured you still liked the car since it is wicked cool looking. No harm no foul and were all on the same page, the car came out great.
I will be posting my build and others since I am close with about three other local builders.

[JAubin]

I forgot to measure the GTM seats, curious as to how wide they are as I have a line of a pair of seats, want to make sure they'll fit. No one happened to measure the cockpit width did they?

[flytosail]

There are some funny but entirely expected responses on this forum, especially the one about my maths being wrong and it being 830.something.

Anyway, stop being so damn defensive. This was a thread with the title (and I quote) "Observations, data, discussions from the Open house"..... so in the spirit of the thread title I observed that the data from the Open house showed that the vehicle was not 818kg's as per the original intention behind the name and the design. That was it, you then blindly waded in, got all defensive and didn't think for a second that I might actually like the 818 regardless.

Jim, thank you for letting me know how much fuel was in the tank.

Now chill out and those of you that actually ordered your 818's, enjoy and I look forward to seeing your builds on this forum (if possible)!


Just a reminder:



I'm surprised that the main observation is not the fact that it isn't 818Kg but 829Kg instead, even with GTM seats. Nit picking I know but it does kinda make the name wrong and there is a sense that we'd (or at least I'd) got the impression that 818Kg was going to happen, perhaps even with the stock Impreza seats.

Unless of course this was a 'wet' weight (it must be if it drove to the scales!)? Full/half tank?


I do not think anyone actually building an 818 will be adding lead weight to bring the car up to 818 kg like it was some giant Pinewood Derby car if their car comes out light. Guess your "main observation" was different then every else's up to the point where you brought it up.

sarcasm mode on

On the back of mine, I plan on putting an "818*" and a smaller note below:

"* NOTE: Car weighs 818 kg with an empty tank of gas (except unusable fuel), full oil, full radiator fluid, full washer fluid, and an ashtray of change consisting of 24 quarters, 15 dimes, 11 nickels, and 13 pennies."

sarcasm mode off

[timmy318]

sarcasm mode on.......sarcasm mode off

Damn.... I really need to find one of those sarcasm mode buttons!!!! :p

[metalmaker12]

I forgot to measure the GTM seats, curious as to how wide they are as I have a line of a pair of seats, want to make sure they'll fit. No one happened to measure the cockpit width did they?
I did not measure, though I will for you in a week when I show up there, I would say most (meaning 90 percent ) seats will fit no issues, plus you can customize stuff to fit, it is in fact your canvas

[flytosail]

Damn.... I really need to find one of those sarcasm mode buttons!!!! :p


I am also on a gun fourm where you are not judged by the color of your skin, but by its thickness.

Tried using the same level of un-noted sarcasm on the Cruisecritic fourm and almost caused a few members to stroke out. Apparently, suggesting a cruise ship be scuttled because of a single area onboard was not able to be wheel chair accessible (due to the ship's design) is frowned upon there.

I have this on my car:

http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff124/flytosail/0763854179758c920606bab03d65716a_zps4528dad3.jpg

Wife and I was drivng somewhere and I made a comment about another driver's skillset and reached up and turned on the light saying, "The Captian has turned on the sarcasm light, please feel free to use sarcasm throughout the vehicle." She thought that was amusing exactly .... once.

[blueafro]

What are the final wet curb weights for the S and R models? The Road and Track image someone posted shows 2,012 lbs. (912.5 kg) for the R, and I wondered if that was accurate.

Sorry if this is covered elsewhere, I've been trying to catch up with the 818 news after several months' absence.

Found my answer here:

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?10251-Road-amp-Track-eval-of-the-818R&p=101114&viewfull=1#post101114

[Jeff Kleiner]

How heavy is the frame? When stewart delivers it, will I need a dolly to get it up my driveway, or will two average people be able to carry it?

Craig,
As can be seen here Stewart cranes it off of the truck and onto their dolly:

http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj43/jkleiner/100_0144.jpg

They'll roll it into your garage and from there you will transfer it to jackstands or your own dolly (highly recommended).

Cheers,
Jeff

[Wayne Presley]

Craig,
As can be seen here Stewart cranes it off of the truck and onto their dolly:

http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj43/jkleiner/100_0144.jpg

They'll roll it into your garage and from there you will transfer it to jackstands or your own dolly (highly recommended).

Cheers,
Jeff

Thanks for posting that Jeff, I really didn't want to dig through 20GB of cobra pics I have to find it :D

[JAubin]

Thanks Metal, I'm going to go forward with the seats since the deal is too good to pass up, getting a dimension on the GTM seats would be really good for others I'm sure tho.

I had the same feeling as LongIslandwrx that the seats were in too reclined of a position...hopefully there's room to rotate the seats forward and still have clearance. Luckily I'm an ewok at 5'7 ish

[Canadian818]

Looked like there was room under the seats, at least an inch. Going by photos, I wasn't there. So it could've been lower, a lot lower with a side mounted seat.

[Mechie3]

Craig,
As can be seen here Stewart cranes it off of the truck and onto their dolly:

They'll roll it into your garage and from there you will transfer it to jackstands or your own dolly (highly recommended).

Cheers,
Jeff

Ahh, thanks Jeff. I couldn't tell from pics if that was Stewarts dolly or the buyers dolly.

[pondo]

If you guys are concerned about 10 kilograms, check the size of your gut. ~20+ lbs sitting right there for the average american.

[timmy318]

Ahh, thanks Jeff. I couldn't tell from pics if that was Stewarts dolly or the buyers dolly.


He had a dolly when he dropped of the '33 for us.

[bnr32jason]

There are some funny but entirely expected responses on this forum, especially the one about my maths being wrong and it being 830.something.

Anyway, stop being so damn defensive. This was a thread with the title (and I quote) "Observations, data, discussions from the Open house"..... so in the spirit of the thread title I observed that the data from the Open house showed that the vehicle was not 818kg's as per the original intention behind the name and the design. That was it, you then blindly waded in, got all defensive and didn't think for a second that I might actually like the 818 regardless.

Jim, thank you for letting me know how much fuel was in the tank.

Now chill out and those of you that actually ordered your 818's, enjoy and I look forward to seeing your builds on this forum (if possible)!

We aren't being defensive, we are being sarcastic about a comment that made no sense. You said you were surprised more people weren't focusing on disparity between the name and the actual weight. But the truth is it doesn't matter because every finished 818 is going to weigh in a little differently. So of course people aren't focused on it because it just doesn't matter, not even one bit.

[timbro101]

My sarcasm button doesn't work as well. Maybe I need to make a mod.

[Wayne Presley]

Well gas weighs about 6.1lbs/gal so if they took out 4 gallons and the carbon side skirts it would have been almost exactly 1800 lbs and still would have been able to drive it in. A NA Lotus Elise weighs 1904 with 4 gallons in it on my scales for comparison.

[ktm]

I don't care much about the weight, but it is a valid observation that the car wasn't quite complete and doesn't seem to have much of an interior.

Figure a full interior- carpet, sound deadening, door cards, and such and it will weigh more.

Starting a new thread on the interior and ideas how to make it better.

[Mechie3]

Did anyone get a view of the coolant header tank? I'm wondering where they ran the overflow port on that tank (it's the one that bolts to the manifold).

[Oppenheimer]

1800 lbs was the goal. But as a name it sounds better when converted to metric. 1800 was the goal, and it came out as 1828. Mission Accomplished. Pick a reason: The weight of the fuel in it at the time easily accounts for the 28. Round off to the nearest 100 lbs you get 1800. True 'dry weight' would be even lower than 1800 (minus fuel, oil, trans & brake fluid, etc.)

Its only when you try to convert the 'as measured' weight into metric again that 818 doesn't quite fit perfectly. But it was never intended to hit 818 exactly. The real goal was lbs, and 818 was just the metric translation (after all its not 820, or some other 'round' number in metric, is it?)

The goal was a target, and they hit the bullseye just a tiny bit above its center. But they did hit the bullseye.

[bnr32jason]

I don't care much about the weight, but it is a valid observation that the car wasn't quite complete and doesn't seem to have much of an interior.

Figure a full interior- carpet, sound deadening, door cards, and such and it will weigh more.

Starting a new thread on the interior and ideas how to make it better.

I'm going to be experimenting with different sound deadening. There is a product called FatMat that I used in my Civic and it works great but isn't as heavy as something like Dynamat (despite the name "Fat" haha). 100sq ft of the stuff only weighs about 30lbs.

[SixStar]

It's a kit car guys. It CAN weigh 818 if it's built to weigh that. It can also weigh 900, or more. The R they have was 2,000lbs.

My WRX weighs 2,999 as raced. I did a TON to get it down that far, now take my power and lose over 1,000lbs.... rocket ship. IMO there's more weight to lose off the nut behind the wheel for most of us :D

[wleehendrick]

1800 lbs was the goal. But as a name it sounds better when converted to metric.

Plus, 1800 as a model name was taken a long time ago:

18515

(P1800 to be exact!)

[bnr32jason]

Glad you posted that, I'm a long time Volvo fan, although the only Volvo I have currently is a fairly boring XC60, but it's a great car. I'd love to get an old P1800 or Amazon.

[Evan78]

Perhaps Benji was fooled by the implied accuracy of 818. If they called it the "Approximately 1800", everyone would know it was a ballpark target. When 818 is used, many will assume that a more careful calculations went into deriving the number due to the significant digits.

[Oppenheimer]

Plus, 1800 as a model name was taken a long time ago:

18515

(P1800 to be exact!)

Simon Templar

[Silvertop]

Simon Templar

I had forgotten that. "The Saint" drove a P1800!

[blueafro]

The focus on 10 kilos in a kit car, every one of which will be built differently, is a bit myopic. I was a bit surprised by R&T's numbers on the 818R, but Dave explained that in another thread. No doubt 818 is within reach for those to whom that number is especially important.

Based on R&T's curb weights, it appears the R (2,012 lbs.) weighs within a few lbs. (2,015 lbs.) of the naturally aspirated US-spec '06 Exige (the only model Exige for which I have R&T specs here at hand) and 60 lbs. heavier than the '05 Elise (1,950 lbs). Trade the weight of adding forced induction to the Elise or Exige for the weight savings of cutting off its roof, and you're pretty near par.

So 818 kg empty if you build light, and more or less comparable to the Elise/Exige platform, but with a lower-mounted engine. Not too bad for something that uses engines as tunable and available as Subarus.

I'd say mission accomplished.

[D2W]

I apologize if I missed this but can anybody confirm how they did the carbon fiber on the rear humps?

[snowphun]

The focus on 10 kilos in a kit car, every one of which will be built differently, is a bit myopic. I was a bit surprised by R&T's numbers on the 818R, but Dave explained that in another thread. No doubt 818 is within reach for those to whom that number is especially important.

Based on R&T's curb weights, it appears the R (2,012 lbs.) weighs within a few lbs. (2,015 lbs.) of the naturally aspirated US-spec '06 Exige (the only model Exige for which I have R&T specs here at hand) and 60 lbs. heavier than the '05 Elise (1,950 lbs). Trade the weight of adding forced induction to the Elise or Exige for the weight savings of cutting off its roof, and you're pretty near par.

So 818 kg empty if you build light, and more or less comparable to the Elise/Exige platform, but with a lower-mounted engine. Not too bad for something that uses engines as tunable and available as Subarus.

I'd say mission accomplished.

I can tell from the tone of this thread my thoughts will be received poorly, but I agree with the observation that the car is heavier than anticipated, more so than most of you are admitting. The show car has much lighter seats and wheels along with aluminum control arms and is missing trim and items most people will need (wipers, heat blower...). I think guys claiming they can get it into 17XX# are glassy eyed. 818kg with the $15k target is off.

Not sure how this is "more or less comparable" to an Elise/Exige, those have AC, power windows, tops, stereo, air bags, trim, a trunk, wipers... I could drive my Elise a couple hours away for the weekend and know I could park it relatively securely, get home in the rain, pack a few bags and put the AC on if the sun gets too strong. My longer 818 trips are going to be to the track and I imagine I'd be building a water resistant Jeep-like interior.

I am impressed with the car, I still want one if I can fit with a helmet 2" under the broomstick. I think naming it after a target weight was a bit silly. :)

[Wayne Presley]

The carbon humps were made in the same mold as the hatch, the glass rear humps were cut off and the CF pieces bonded on the hatch.

[Dave Smith]

All good feedback. I agree with the interior and assume a lot of guys will cover their door panels and build a bit better fit and finish. With respect to the weight, when you consider that the target weight of 1800 lbs was made BEFORE the car was even designed, and that if we took five gallons out of the car we could have "made it weight 1800 lbs" but we all thought that would be silly and contrived. Heck, a normally aspirated Imprez will be maybe 40 lbs lighter without the turbo stuff. As far as cost, I just can't ask any more of the guys and feel the targets are accomplished and welcome anyone to jump in and try their hand.

One thing I liked the most is that Steve Temple (writer for Kit Car Magazine and ex-Shelby American Marketing VP) drove the car and said to me Saturday night, "I liked the car a lot shooting it and getting an idea of the design, but when I drove it I was actually startled at how fast it was... seriously, very very unexpectedly fast and handles amazingly. He drove the car in the industrial park after the open house and climbed out of the car and ordered one. I'm feeling good about where we are and excited about the future for this car.

I think we are going to surprise a TON of people, humble a TON of Porsches and Vettes, and Bimmers, and have a TON of fun... The one thing the car won't ever be is a TON.

[Erik W. Treves]

1800...1820...all good, it will blow your hat right off your head either way...the design was centered around 1800, pretty darn close the day of the open house....well done!...shoot if you look at the 1300 2012 Hayabussa... it's really a 1340!! All I noticed is how nice the darn car looked!! I can't wait to get home!!!

[blueafro]

Not sure how this is "more or less comparable" to an Elise/Exige, those have AC, power windows, tops, stereo, air bags, trim, a trunk, wipers...

I'm not especially protective of the 818, since I think the weight target was too high to be a better alternative to the Elise/Exige and MR2 platforms, not because the 818 can't be a great machine, but because it's fairly easy to get a great machine out of one of the flyweight OEM cars, and I'm too lazy to reinvent the wheel. But since you replied to a particular point I made, I'll reply back:

Add intercoolers, turbos, more exhaust and induction plumbing to get to the high 200 hp range, and what does the Elise weigh? Then chop off the bits you don't need if you're going head to head with the 818 (much of what you named), and how much weight do you save? Depending how extreme, you might end up a hundred pounds lighter, maybe more, but you'll have quite a lot more money tied up, and probably a higher c.o.g. For what the 818 set out to be, a cheap track rat and fast street machine in the 1,800 lb. neighborhood, it seems to me they pretty much hit their target.

[Slatt]

The one thing the car won't ever be is a TON.

I, I, um, yes, I think I can do it. Yes, Yes I Can! Power steering, power brakes, A/C, NOS kit, big battery, upgraded alternator, beefy audio gear in the back trunk, and motors to lift the neon-lit subwoofer out of the front bay at the push of a button plus a few layers of mint-green metallic flake. And, of course, Spinnaz! ;)

Obviously I'm not serious. And BTW, kits ordered after the open house are scheduled out early-mid August 2014. Ask me how I know! :o

[bbjones121]

I'm not especially protective of the 818, since I think the weight target was too high to be a better alternative to the Elise/Exige and MR2 platforms, not because the 818 can't be a great machine, but because it's fairly easy to get a great machine out of one of the flyweight OEM cars, and I'm too lazy to reinvent the wheel. But since you replied to a particular point I made, I'll reply back:

Add intercoolers, turbos, more exhaust and induction plumbing to get to the high 200 hp range, and what does the Elise weigh? Then chop off the bits you don't need if you're going head to head with the 818 (much of what you named), and how much weight do you save? Depending how extreme, you might end up a hundred pounds lighter, maybe more, but you'll have quite a lot more money tied up, and probably a higher c.o.g. For what the 818 set out to be, a cheap track rat and fast street machine in the 1,800 lb. neighborhood, it seems to me they pretty much hit their target.

I looked at the Lotus Elise/Exige route. A test drive of the Exige S 240 proved to me it felt slower than my Subaru legacy. I looked at every possible way to get the power I wanted in the Lotus. Look at the dyno charts on the 2ZZ engine and the area under the curve compared to a Subaru engine.

Good luck getting the Toyota 2zz 1.8 liter engine anywhere close to a Subie 2.5. Even a Monkey Wrenched sleeved stroker built 2zz 2 litter engine wouldn't do it for me. Supercharged or turboed, no matter how you try, it just doesn't help the charts. Then there is the transmission...don't get me started there. Start adding up the built tranny and an engine swap, and you got yourself a lot of extra weight to your Lotus. For the power the 818 can put down (with some good tires and a race logic trac control of course), it is pretty tough to keep on a 818kg diet.

[Movieman]

I'm reminded of the sequence in the cpu industry:
First you make it work, then you make it work better, then you make it work better and run cool and finally you make it look good.
I think FFR is at the last stage doing all the little details that always take more time than expected..

[wallace18]

I really do not understand all the hoopla over if the car weighs 818kg or not. If the 818 bothers you about the weight think of it this way. Ate one eight as in eats 1 v-8 for lunch at a time. LOL.

[metalmaker12]

There is no substitute for low end torque a Subaru turbo produces in stock trim with moderate boost, it is one of the only small displacement engines to produce more torque than horse power for its size. Sorry Elise guys but the 818 will eat you up with the same hp because the low end grunt you won't have . Just ask Wayne, he will tell you about how brutal the torque is in the 818r with only 300 ftlbs

[Flamshackle]

There is no substitute for low end torque a Subaru turbo produces in stock trim with moderate boost, it is one of the only small displacement engines to produce more torque than horse power for its size. Sorry Elise guys but the 818 will eat you up with the same hp because the low end grunt you won't have . Just ask Wayne, he will tell you about how brutal the torque is in the 818r with only 300 ftlbs

Not better for traction unfortunately. a nice linier power buildup will serve this car best.

SUPERCHARGING it may be one of the smart options no? time and money aside it would suit the lighter weight IMHO.

[metalmaker12]

Normally i would say light weight sc yes, but with this car I have to disagree, the stock turbo setup is actual very linear compared to most setups and this mix of a lightweight car with low center of gravity is a perfect bond. I would never sc a Subaru engine, the turbo makes a great even torque curve and the horse power is there to. If its not broke don't fix, if its turbo, leave it alone lol. Just my opinion though

[riptide motorsport]

[QUOTE=IMPREZvWRX;103735]OK, so my car is 6" narrower, 10" taller, and nearly 1300 lbs heavier. This should be a pretty good upgrade!

Any mention of fuel capacity? It's a 110 mile round trip to my autox site, (plus whatever I use during the event) and it doesn't look like I'll have a place to put my fuel cans. I'm gonna need a support vehicle![/QUOTE

tow hitch.

[JAubin]

I'm honestly not that interested in the weight discussion, but two things I was thinking of: The stock wrx wheel/tire combo is lighter than the wide tires and "lightweight" wheels because they're so much smaller. It would be an interesting ride, but with how light it is, I'm sure it would still be a blast on 205/55 16's. Also my other hobby is racing bikes. I race cyclocross, mountain bikes and have done a few hillclimb races (Did Mt. Washington last year, that's a very legit climb...some say hardest in the world) Power to weight is everything, especially since there are both physiological limitations to power output, and how light you can make your bike. I used somewhat light components but I don't go all out. Typical production bicycle components vary wildly in claimed weight vs actual weight. Usually 5% or more, and these are not inexpensive components!

I was also thinking of what a straight adapter would look like so you could mate the turbo to a bell-mouth downpipe and open up the flow quite a bit. Now that I've thought about it I can see why FFR is including the two plates and tube, it's definitely not a simple part! I imagine a SS casting that would need a bunch of post-machining. Alternatively it could be a cast piece with flanges welded on which might make it quite a bit easier, albiet with a bit more flow restriction. This is a hacked together idea of what it might look like. Don't judge me on this, I realize it wouldn't work on many levels, just trying to get the idea across. This mate up to a good bellmouth downpipe would probably yield some good flow characteristics.
18520

[PhyrraM]

No need for a bellmouth downpipe if the adapter itself can perform the function. Once production ramps up I would guess the cost increase from the current 'simple tube' adapter would be negligible.

[tmoretta]

Was a great Open House. Thanks to all! Just two comments from me: Am very disappointed to see the 818s offered only in white gelcoat. White is my least favorite color. Looks so much better in blue or red. Also, happy to see a full access hatch to the rear trunk, but the over engine panel still has hold down clips, and, I assume, no hinges. So to get real access to engine (oil level, etc.) one still has to conscript someone to help remove an access panel.

[Silvertop]

Was a great Open House. Thanks to all! Just two comments from me: Am very disappointed to see the 818s offered only in white gelcoat. White is my least favorite color. Looks so much better in blue or red. Also, happy to see a full access hatch to the rear trunk, but the over engine panel still has hold down clips, and, I assume, no hinges. So to get real access to engine (oil level, etc.) one still has to conscript someone to help remove an access panel.

The other colors will come. I'm betting they will become available sooner rather than later. And keep in mind that FFR was hurrying to get the production 818 ready for the Open House. I don't really know this, but I wouldn't be surprised if hinges become available for the engine cover rather quickly as well.

[Wayne Presley]

Was a great Open House. Thanks to all! Just two comments from me: Am very disappointed to see the 818s offered only in white gelcoat. White is my least favorite color. Looks so much better in blue or red. Also, happy to see a full access hatch to the rear trunk, but the over engine panel still has hold down clips, and, I assume, no hinges. So to get real access to engine (oil level, etc.) one still has to conscript someone to help remove an access panel.

One person can pull and install the hatch over the motor.

[Mechie3]

No need for a bellmouth downpipe if the adapter itself can perform the function. Once production ramps up I would guess the cost increase from the current 'simple tube' adapter would be negligible.

Hmm..quite true.

I have a spare bell mouth downpipe that I traded a (busted) JDM grille for (that came free with my 02 beater). :D I could potentially cut the bell part off, weld a tube onto it to match the curve of the FFR adapter, and then weld a flange on the end to mate with my real downpipe.

[JAubin]

No need for a bellmouth downpipe if the adapter itself can perform the function. Once production ramps up I would guess the cost increase from the current 'simple tube' adapter would be negligible.
True, you also get more volume here than a typical bellmouth...the flow would still be a bit better going into a bellmouth vs stock flat plate, but probably an imperceptible difference at that point. I'm not sure the volumes FFR will run these at will ever get high enough to get the cost difference to parity with a bent tube with welded flanges on it, but I could definitely see get small enough that it wouldn't be a problem. Definitely lots of good options for setting up the exhaust though. Makes me think that I might as well go V8/V9 with my EJ207 since I'll be doing a modified exhaust of some kind anyway!

[blueafro]

I looked at the Lotus Elise/Exige route. A test drive of the Exige S 240 proved to me it felt slower than my Subaru legacy. I looked at every possible way to get the power I wanted in the Lotus. Look at the dyno charts on the 2ZZ engine and the area under the curve compared to a Subaru engine.

Good luck getting the Toyota 2zz 1.8 liter engine anywhere close to a Subie 2.5. Even a Monkey Wrenched sleeved stroker built 2zz 2 litter engine wouldn't do it for me. Supercharged or turboed, no matter how you try, it just doesn't help the charts. Then there is the transmission...don't get me started there. Start adding up the built tranny and an engine swap, and you got yourself a lot of extra weight to your Lotus. For the power the 818 can put down (with some good tires and a race logic trac control of course), it is pretty tough to keep on a 818kg diet.

I don't disagree, but I also think the population of people who will be able to make use of as much power as can be built into any particular platform is fairly small (I for one know I'm not among that number) and the difference in weight is relatively small too. For me, I don't have a lot of time to spend on cars (not nearly what I'd like!), and an N/A 2ZZ MR2 Spyder is as fast as I need for the little track time I get and is already built and in my garage. That's what I meant when I said I was too lazy to pursue the 818. :-) At this point in my life, I'm more interested in dropping weight than in gaining power, and a hundred kilos or so just isn't enough of a difference for me to rearrange life to start a build when I already have a light car with decent (not huge, I agree) power. Had it been a 717 instead of an 818, things might be different. :-)

In the end, I decided to sit on the sidelines and enjoy watching what comes of this car without getting involved in building one until perhaps I have more time in my life and the kit has gone through a few iterations. Looks like it will be a good little car, and I'm very interested in seeing what the builders do with it.

I continue to think that people upset about 10 kilos in a kit car are reading too much into the numbers. My guess is that car to car, the weights achieved in each individual build will tend to vary by a lot more than 10 kilos. I also guess that some people are going to find ways to build significantly under 818 kilos, and it will be cool to see how they do it.

[Oppenheimer]

1800, 1801, whatever it takes...

[Wayne Presley]

1800, 1801, whatever it takes...
LOL, Paging Mr Keaton...

[RM1SepEx]

We will know soon how it "works" in real life. I have an early August date and will be using stock rims with 205 front and 225 rear. I'll assemble the "basic" kit with stock 05 donor parts except the aluminum LCA and adjustable rear lateral link, and I have scales... I do have a lightened flywheel and a tube header and up pipe. No other changes from stock. I have dyno access so we will have both weight and basic tune dyno numbers. Stage II for me is TGV delete, Bellmouth the adapter, re-tune and upgrade to staggered 17s. I'll keep everyone posted and will document the build. After it is running I'll "paint" the 818 "canvass"

[snowphun]

Normally i would say light weight sc yes, but with this car I have to disagree, the stock turbo setup is actual very linear compared to most setups and this mix of a lightweight car with low center of gravity is a perfect bond. I would never sc a Subaru engine, the turbo makes a great even torque curve and the horse power is there to. If its not broke don't fix, if its turbo, leave it alone lol. Just my opinion though

Wow, over twelve years of owning multiple WRXs and I've never heard anyone claim they have great low end torque. The stock 2 liter doesn't wake up until 3300 rpm, the 2.5 is around 3k. Comparing these engines to many other small turbo engines makes them look like real dogs down low. The 2.5 is a great engine in the mid range but it is definitely a slouch down low, and you need to adjust your driving style or you'll keep falling way off the power in daily driving.

The real selling points of these engines are their relatively cheap price and abundance, and their ability to do 300-350hp with decent reliability.

[Mechie3]

I think he meant low compared to the power the Elise engine makes up in the high 6-7k rpms. I'll agree though, my MCS has better low end performance with peak torque coming on somewhere around 1800rpms due to direct injection and a twin scroll turbo (and a very short manifold length).

[wleehendrick]

I think he meant low compared to the power the Elise engine makes up in the high 6-7k rpms. I'll agree though, my MCS has better low end performance with peak torque coming on somewhere around 1800rpms due to direct injection and a twin scroll turbo (and a very short manifold length).

Yeah, it's amazing what direct injection and a twinscroll can do. BMW's really getting it right... the N55 in our 135i makes 300lb-ft @1200RPM.

That being said, I'm not worried about the powerband in the 818, since even off boost, the power/weight ratio will be so much better than a WRX, it'll rev up into the powerband plenty quick even if you're a gear or two high.

Now the 1.8T in our Audi A4 Avant... that you really have to work the stick if you want torque.

[snowphun]

I think a very light flywheel will help a lot here. The NA Elise didn't make good torque at any rpm, but at least the revs climb very fast making it more exciting. A faster reving EJ would be great.

[RM1SepEx]

want another color, wait for the plastic panels... re Dave... he wants to focus on the longer term soln so early builders (me included) white or wait... I'm not waiting :-)

I need ideas for a color scheme!

Fuel Capacity, around 13 gallons

[nucleus]

Yeah, it's amazing what direct injection and a twinscroll can do. BMW's really getting it right... the N55 in our 135i makes 68HP @1200RPM.


Fixed it for you

:)

[metalmaker12]

Wow, over twelve years of owning multiple WRXs and I've never heard anyone claim they have great low end torque. The stock 2 liter doesn't wake up until 3300 rpm, the 2.5 is around 3k. Comparing these engines to many other small turbo engines makes them look like real dogs down low. The 2.5 is a great engine in the mid range but it is definitely a slouch down low, and you need to adjust your driving style or you'll keep falling way off the power in daily driving.

The real selling points of these engines are their relatively cheap price and abundance, and their ability to do 300-350hp with decent reliability.

I was compairing it to the Elise na engine. That said, you kinda sound like your hating on Subaru engines. Yes, compairing them to new direct injection BMW etc they are not as efficient in stock form. They are mid range junkies and they are abundant. So what's the wow for, I was stating fact. The wrx engine in this platform is shear genius.

[spaceywilly]

I don't think low end torque will be an issue in an 1800lb car. In a WRX (especially the 2.0) the engine bogs because it doesn't have enough torque to overcome all the weight it is hauling around, but I imagine if you removed 1300lbs it would suffice.

[metalmaker12]

Power to weight baby

[Benji]

I don't think low end torque will be an issue in an 1800lb car. In a WRX (especially the 2.0) the engine bogs because it doesn't have enough torque to overcome all the weight it is hauling around, but I imagine if you removed 1300lbs it would suffice.

Somewhat....more to do with AWD grip.

[metalmaker12]

True the grip and weight bog em down, but they are still quick and good cars for the coin.

[D2W]

We will know soon how it "works" in real life. I have an early August date and will be using stock rims with 205 front and 225 rear. I'll assemble the "basic" kit with stock 05 donor parts except the aluminum LCA and adjustable rear lateral link, and I have scales... I do have a lightened flywheel and a tube header and up pipe. No other changes from stock. I have dyno access so we will have both weight and basic tune dyno numbers. Stage II for me is TGV delete, Bellmouth the adapter, re-tune and upgrade to staggered 17s. I'll keep everyone posted and will document the build. After it is running I'll "paint" the 818 "canvass"

I look forward to following your build. We all know that mfg's weights are dry, it will be interesting to see what a donor build will weigh full of fluids. Are you also using the stock WRX seats. How much do they weigh?

[ehansen007]

FWIW: car had 5 gallons of gas, we poured one of my race cans in it to get it running for the open house.

We didn't try and put in the exact amount of gas or not show the car with some of the carbon trim to get to 818 kg exactly because this car isn't the important one, what matters is that if you want you can build your car to 1800lbs if you chose to, that was the goal behind the name.

No, Jim, it was my fault. When no one was looking Zullo and I took the S to the store for a case of beer. We got back late and were too embarassed to take it out of the trunk in front of all those people. Now, a case of beer weighs about 18lbs so I can say your car is still off by 10lbs. For shame. Man that beer was cold though.

[snowphun]

I was compairing it to the Elise na engine. That said, you kinda sound like your hating on Subaru engines. Yes, compairing them to new direct injection BMW etc they are not as efficient in stock form. They are mid range junkies and they are abundant. So what's the wow for, I was stating fact. The wrx engine in this platform is shear genius.

You seem very defensive, take it easy. :) Regardless of what you're comparing it to, the stock ej20 has crummy low end torque. You're now agreeing with me that it's best in the mid range, I don't agree with your "fact" that it has great low end torque. The massive lag until 3300 rpm makes it frustrating to drive when compared to most other modern turbo or NA cars, I can't think of a modern engine with worse lag. I drive either a MY11 WRX (modded) or MY02 WRX (200k miles stock) most days so I know the difference and I know the 2 liter can be made more driveable with some tweaking.

The issue isn't going away with less weight or rwd vs awd, it just gets more manageable. Keep the revs up and it isn't an issue, but that isn't practical in real life driving.

[RM1SepEx]

I look forward to following your build. We all know that mfg's weights are dry, it will be interesting to see what a donor build will weigh full of fluids. Are you also using the stock WRX seats. How much do they weigh?

I will try the stock seats, they are virtual boat anchors

[longislandwrx]

Looks like they took down the order form. The new one must be coming soon.

[JAubin]

The issue isn't going away with less weight or rwd vs awd, it just gets more manageable. Keep the revs up and it isn't an issue, but that isn't practical in real life driving.

My perspective...I'll be able to "manage" ok with a sub 4.0 second 0-60. Removing weight directly addresses the issue of having less power at the lower rev range, as does removing drivetrain losses from the center differential, driveshaft, and rear differential. Yes in general you need to keep revs higher driving the 2.0L motor, but I'm not sure I'd call that impractical. I had a 1990 Jetta with the 85 hp NA 4 cylinder...that was a dog.

[Silvertop]

I will try the stock seats, they are virtual boat anchors

I too will try the boat-anchor stock seats, regardless of the weight penalty. I want the extra height they provide, I'm too old to sit on the floor. The only thing that will push me to aftermarket seats is if my head won't fit underneath the roll bar, or won't pass the broomstick test. Hoping that will be OK. I'm only 5'9".

[RM1SepEx]

I'm not sure if I will enjoy the stock seats "fit" I LOVE my 1991 BMW325IC Recaro seats... I hate the tiny Miata seats at 5'8" and 175 they don't fit right. I've only sat in the WRX seats for a few minutes but the feel too large...

I have just about zero weight concerns... I'll be adding weight and creature comforts, as long as I have 10lbs or less per rear wheel HP I'll be just fine

[metalmaker12]

I meant good low end for a 1800 lb car. Were also talking about pretty much stock tunes, cause you can get the torque earlier with the right tune. In a heavier car with a non direct injected turbo setup 3000 rpms is sluggish were most kick in prior. Now the new batch of Subaru engines will all have direct inject turbos, which will show how a Subaru can bring on full torque at sub 2k. Sorry if I was pissy and not clear, I was busy doing other things. :cool:

Another thing, it is good it does not have wicked low end torque because the 818 already rips the tires off.

With the 2.5 and jdm Sti with avcs, you can change the activation point of when this kits in and you can get torque sooner. The fuel,boost, parameters will have to be altered as well. This would have to be done with a open source tune or a protune etc etc.

[snowphun]

Yes, quite a few tricks to make the 2 liter more livable, I swapped in a catless up pipe, tune and had the td04 port and polished on my 2 liter and it helped quite a bit. But having owned a 2.5 liter for two years now I think I will go that route if at all possible, its been in enough cars now that they are pretty common to find. :)

[Mechie3]

Subaru's latest LGT manifold with the turbo front/low helps low end too. Not sure it will fit the 818 though.

[metalmaker12]

Yea that us a sweet setup, I have not seen it tried on an older engine though

[metalmaker12]

So what size should I make my build dolly

[Canadian818]

Subaru's latest LGT manifold with the turbo front/low helps low end too. Not sure it will fit the 818 though.


I was actually thinking about moving the turbo to shorten the manifold runner length. If possible, much lower, get a little more weight down low and keep the heat away from the intercooler and possible storage area.

[MJCS]

Me to check out these for inspiration.

18562
18563
18564

[Wayne Presley]

Me to check out these for inspiration.

18562
18563
18564

There is not room in the 818 for that

[Evan78]

There is not room in the 818 for thatCome on Wayne, do we really need a gas tank?

Seriously though, isn't there potential to reconfigure the tank to make some room?

[07FIREBLADE]

Someone needs to figure this out come on Wayne you can do it....