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View Full Version : The 818 and Wookie compatibility.



David Hodgkins
06-13-2013, 11:39 AM
When Dave Smith came out to HB for the weekend at the end of April, I had him sit in my Roadster to get a feel for what Wookie compatibility REALLY means. He couldn't work the clutch! It was too far away. He confessed that he was a little worried about making the 818 Wookie compatible. I could see it in his face. He was a little taken aback by how big my Roadster cockpit is. Would it turn out that the 818 is NOT Wookie compatible after all?

To set context, here's Dave Smith with a pair of typical customers, Erick Parga and his father Art:
http://www.factoryfive.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/epgoodguys2.jpg

Now, here's Dave -with Randy and Julie Jones - standing next to a Wookie:
http://www.factoryfive.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/MG_56212.jpg

Now before you really get into reading what follows, remember that we are talking about Wookies here. The 99th percentile in terms of height. I'm further hindered my my, ehem, "robustness". I'm 6'6" with size 16 shoes and as recently as 3 months ago, tipped the scales at a WHOPPING 345. Ouch. That was hard to type. I've lost 40 lbs since then, but will still be north of 300 when I visit FFR this weekend.

I understand that I'm outside the design parameters of this little rocket of a car, which is the size of a Miata, S2000 or a Lotus Elise. None of which I can even sit in. Those are SMALL cars, and Dave stating that big guys like us would fit was introducing a major design factor into a design that is a lightweight track weapon. I've known all along that the idea was to be able to sit in it, look through the windshield, and work the pedals. That's pretty much it. I'd still probably look like a clown in one of those circus cars, but I'm ok with that because the car will be as fun as heck. The fact that it is a roadster helps because I have no expectations of fitting under a roof. The FACT is I have unreasonable expectations to be able to fit in any car this size. I'm a BIG dude, so it's what it is. But Dave Smith said Wookies would fit, so I've been watching to design come together with a very strong desire to build one myself.

I do have some experience getting an FFR to work For my size. My Roadster is big enough, unlike most. I have several simple mods to add 4" of legroom, accommodate my size 16's and lower the seat 2" so I look through the windshield instead of AT the upper edge. The result is a car that fits me like a glove. It is truly Wookie compatible. All with very simple mods. Kirkeys tilted forward a bit and mounted on fixed brackets on the floor. Adjustable Wilwood pedals. Different sheet metal from FFMetal. And I cut the driver's footbox crash bar out. BTW in a MKIV I probably wouldn't have to do that since it was redesigned. As the car is now, I've even had a guy 6'10" sit in it and he could close the door and work the pedals. So when it was stated that the 818 would be Wookie compatible out of the box, I was very excited to say the least.

So back to Dave Smith. He frankly had underestimated what it would take to get a guy my size into the 818. I sat in the first frame, and when I sat in the body mock-up and had Dave take some pics, everything was pointing to being able to fit just fine. The first sign of trouble for me - which I subsequently kept to myself until now - was when I sat in the frame at the open house last year and had Henry take a pic. The car felt too tight. Kind of like how I feel in my boss's 911. My leg was up against the shifter and my legs were splayed pretty wide. The good news it that I FIT, but it wasn't ideal. Now, these were stock Subaru seats. I've known all along that I'd probably need Kirkey seats to fit, and I'm fine with that.

But Dave had different ideas after sitting in my car. He went back to Jesper and Jim and had them design a different bulkhead and also new gas tank that is taller and fits behind the passenger only. These will be offered as options on the 818. He doesn't have part numbers yet but they are designed. They might even have prototypes now, but I don't know that. He says this change will allow SIX INCHES OF ADDITIONAL LEGROOM with a Kirkey racing seat!

This convinces me that the 818 will have clearly the biggest cockpit of any FFR. There are quite a few guys around who race FFR's at 6'5". They will be right at home in the 818.

Dave and his team have done it again. I am positive that the 818 will be big enough for those of us who hail from the forested planet of Kashyyyk. I can hardly wait to get my 818, and build it here on the forum.

Thanks Dave! I'm so happy I could dance...

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=18366&d=1371142164

Mechie3
06-13-2013, 12:43 PM
Not a bad read (though I skimmed a few sections :o ). Cool to hear they took initiative.

Canadian818
06-13-2013, 01:16 PM
That's awesome! Thanks for sharing. At 6'2 250lbs I'm on the small side of wookie status, but any concerns I had are now gone.

Darkpiggy's dad
06-13-2013, 06:53 PM
Thanks Dave, I'm 6'3" with a long torso. I sit taller than my 6'7" best friend, but in old Alfas my head is below the cloth top, so I know it can be done. Great post!

Someday I Suppose
06-14-2013, 08:24 AM
Dave and Dave that is awesome for sure, very cool update.

To give folks an idea, Dave H rode in the passanger seat of my roadster last year, he fit, but honestly needed to take off his shoes to do so. The only problem was they didn't fit in the trunk of the car, so he walked around the open house bare foot all day.

Scott

David Hodgkins
06-14-2013, 08:41 AM
Dave and Dave that is awesome for sure, very cool update.

To give folks an idea, Dave H rode in the passanger seat of my roadster last year, he fit, but honestly needed to take off his shoes to do so. The only problem was they didn't fit in the trunk of the car, so he walked around the open house bare foot all day.

Scott

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=18367&d=1371142165

:D

ehansen007
06-14-2013, 10:11 AM
We're bringing the butter so we can butter up his sides and get Hodgkins into the 818 and get a picture. Hopefully we won't need the jaws of life to get him out. I know they have GTM seats in one of them which should help. I think the stock seats would be very difficult for most 6foot and overs. Removable wheel or flip column might be a popular choice.

Wayne Presley
06-14-2013, 05:48 PM
Ha, I drove the 818R back into the showroom today, much longer reach to the pedals

bnr32jason
06-14-2013, 11:51 PM
I wonder if someone my size (6'2") will need to select the optional parts for added legroom. I'm not exactly a wookie, but I'm not horse jockey either.

conmech
06-15-2013, 09:37 AM
As I had sent to you, David, I feel that I have to share this:

Lol, I was explaining your thread 'Wookie compatibility and the 818' to my wife. Her reply was, 'like a Wookie getting into a clown car'. Lol, guess so.

I, however, do not fall under the "squeeze it in" syndrome. Not at my puny 5'8" stance. David, I would be in the same situation as Mr. Smith.... not able to reach YOUR pedals. Lol, I remember my son sitting in your Roadster (pre-paint). Feet hardly cleared the edge of the seat.

FFR-ADV
06-15-2013, 07:26 PM
Having sat in both GTM seats in the 818S and go-cart as well as the Kirkey 47s in the 818R, I think support of the lower thighs provided by a lay-back seat will provide support to partially bent legs. David Hodgkins kindly showed be a Roadster that had Lotus seats which provided lightweight layback leg support. Thanks David.

While looking for examples of this seat I noticed that the Kirkey 39 series provides very similar support for bent legs (deeper bucket) like the Lotus seats provide and they are very reasonably priced as well. The two seats are seen side by side in the following image:

18445

http://www.lotustalk.com/forums/f92/kirkey-seat-67044/

http://www.kirkeyracing.com/index.php?link=browse&code=Series39

Has anyone used these Kirkey 39 series in other Factory Five cars built for tall guys?

Thanks!

Arrowhead
06-17-2013, 10:03 AM
Well I'm not Wookie height, but I'm Wookie weight. I'm sure everyone standing around got a good chuckle out of me getting in and out of the 818S. The step in and out was a little tricky, but once I got in it was a pretty good fit. I could see well and there was plenty of shoulder room for a large passenger. I could use a couple more inches of leg room, but it sounds like that’s more of a function of what seat you go with and there are mods in the works if that’s not enough.

Great to see you Dave H., thanks for helping drive ergonomics for us one percenters!

David Hodgkins
06-17-2013, 10:19 AM
Great to see you Dave H., thanks for helping drive ergonomics for us one percenters!

It was great seeing you too! Sorry your 33 wasn't there, it's a beauty.

I know somebody got pics of me in the 818S and R. It might even be in my camera.

ALL remaining doubt about whether us big guys would fit is now gone. My head was below the rollbar of the 818R. A helmet wouldn't pass the broomstick test but my noggin would for street driving. That is expected and I'm personally OK with that. I'm only going to do open track days with my 818, not NASA or SCCA.

The 818 clearly has the biggest cockpit of any FFR. I was very comfortable in both cars, but will opt for the Wookie Options.

:)

Randy Jones
06-17-2013, 02:58 PM
Dave,

I took them with your camera. They should be there.

R :D

Mad Dog
06-17-2013, 03:13 PM
Here's a couple of photos of Dave in the 818R from Open House.

https://www.factoryfive.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/davehin818r.jpg

https://www.factoryfive.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/davehin818r-2.jpg

Presto51
06-20-2013, 03:03 PM
I'm Six Four Two Forty Lb's sitting in the white 818, seems like with a little tweaking of the seat choices and petal box us big guys should fix just fine. Hope this helps


18577

AZPete
06-20-2013, 06:17 PM
I'm convinced Wookies and other tall guys like me (6'3") can fit in the 818 but what's it like getting in and out? In my roadster the only way to get into the Kirkey seats was to get both feet in and then lower myself down into the seat. Getting out was the reverse: push up with my arms until I could get my left foot out and then the right foot. When I was in my roadster the hinge side of the door was near my knee, hence there was no way to get the left leg out while seated. Thus, I could not add a soft top. On the 818 it appears in photos that the door is cut much more forward therefore I'd be able to put my right leg in, sit down and then pull my left leg in. Jim did that in an 818 go-cart video. If I can do that I can buy the soft top and that leads to A/C (it's hot here). Did any of you check this at the Open House? In other words, can tall guys you get in with a top?
Pete

Erik W. Treves
06-20-2013, 06:44 PM
since we have not seen the top... not sure how anybody can answer this... it also depends how wide/tall the roof is on the "hard top"....

just saying...

AZPete
06-20-2013, 07:10 PM
Good point, Erik. I guess what I'm asking is if you can bend your knee and get your left leg out when seated. If that's possible then it's possible to get in and out with a soft top. I'll know when I get my 818 in August. My ship date is only 51 days away!
Pete

Wayne Presley
06-20-2013, 07:16 PM
My ship date is only 51 days away!
Pete

Erik will have his car done 37 days before that... :D