Brake Line Coils

[hrosenthal]

I'm installing the brake lines this weekend and have a question about where to make the coils.
The manual seems inconsistent with were the coils are placed.
Thanks.

[tirod]

Usually at the master cylinder, mostly because that is where the most significant flex occurs. They run the longest unsupported length in that area, and some firewalls tend to oilcan and move around.

[edwardb]

Lots of discussion on this forum and the other about the need for service loops at the MC. They serve two basic purposes. One is just to make maintenance easier, e.g. being able to remove/replace the lines when doing maintenance on the MC, bleeding, etc. In some applications vibration could be another reason. But the normal Roadster installation has the front and rear lines anchored to the 3/4 tube, and the MC on the heavy steel footbox mounting. Bottom line, for a Roadster leave enough slack for maintenance. That will do it. Actual loops aren't needed. That's how both of my builds have been done.

Edit: If you're using the Wilwood setup, slightly different than I described e.g. the MC's are inside the footbox, not mounted on the front. But still completely rigid so same answer.

[SStrong]

Tirod is right. You will also find that the lines are made to lengths which are longer than you need. You should lay them all out to see where they logically fit. Across the rear end, the line was about 8" too long. Instead of cutting and reflaring, I put loops at both sides to take up the excess. I used all lines without cutting, and they look like they belong. Also, you can use 2 sockets in a vise to make the bends. Use a short and long socket. I bolted mine to a length of 2x4 using 1/2" bolts through the socket and board, then put the board in the vise. This allows you to make the loops to any diameter you want (I used 1 1/4")

[edwardb]

Two different point here. Are loops required in this application for vibration or whatever? Many agree with what I already posted. They aren't. Here's a few: http://www.ffcars.com/forums/17-factory-five-roadsters/301648-creating-service-loops.html

What about using coils to adjust the length? Many aren't comfortable cutting and flaring brake lines, so buying pre-cut and pre-flared lines and coiling the excess is something many have done. Nothing wrong with it, and it works. I would only say that with the right material, tools, and a little practice it's nothing to be afraid of. No harder, if not easier, then many of the other tasks in building one of these. And I like and enjoy the custom results. But that's me.

[hrosenthal]

Thanks for all the great feedback.

[Scott Zackowski]

In support of edwardb, coils are not needed because the MC are mounted to the car's frame and not the body like most other cars. There is essentially no flex. Whitby a FFR builder here in NC also confirmed that coils were not needed. As stated, it is practical to fab a loop or bend coming out of the MC for maintenance.


Mk IV, Complete kit, FFR 7304

[rmcmicki]

Has anyone had experience with the breeze pre formed ss brake lines (#70631)? Would they fit better than having to coil or cut and flare?

[Scott Zackowski]

Has anyone had experience with the breeze pre formed ss brake lines (#70631)? Would they fit better than having to coil or cut and flare?

The Breeze stainless line kits, as you seem to know, come in a 5-piece or 7-piece kit. The 7-peice set up is a direct fit (in most cases) for the mustang donor master cylinder (MC). The 5-piece set up is for the complete kit builds and requires at a minimum fabrication of the 2 lines from the MC. Also depending on your trunk frame configuration (it varies even among the Mk4's), the routing of the kits rear crossover brake line (driver side to passenger side) may not marry up with the frame. Also, depending on your fuel pre-filter location/arrangement you may have to modify the rear crossover line.

Bending and flaring stainless is definitely more challenging but well worth the effort and additional tools. If you decide you want to delve into fabricating stainless, edwardb and I can give you some assistance.

I did a hybrid. I purchased the 5-peice kit and used 4 of the five pieces. I was able to use the kit for all of the rear brake lines but had to modify the rear cross over line to fit around my Holley fuel pre-filter arrangement. I fabricated lines coming out of the MC (I have Whitby's power brake booster and MC kit ) and fabricated the front crossover line (driver to passenger brakes). The re-routing of the front cross over was not necessary, but I didn't like the Breeze routing.

If you decide to go this route, I can post pictures.


Mk IV, Complete kit, FFR 7304

[efnfast]

Has anyone had experience with the breeze pre formed ss brake lines (#70631)? Would they fit better than having to coil or cut and flare?

I bought them. Very glad I did. Made doing brakes easy peasy. It's not fun trying to make brake lines (at least for me, lol) - i either buy pre-made kits (e.g., Breeze's) or buy straight pre-flared sections of stainless from Inline Tube and bend as i need to for custom fitment.

[hrosenthal]

I had some time tonight and began running my brake lines. One of the FFR supplied 60" lines didn't survive, but I think I got the front wheels completed - although, it's not as pretty as I'd like. I'm going to the auto store tomorrow to get a few more lines and will run the rear wheels, then possibly redo the front.
I'm curious if it is better to measure and bend the line on a workbench, then put it into place. I've been bending the line as I fit it into place. The Breeze kit doesn't seem so appealing because they don't provide the lines from the MC to the T-connector - which was the more difficult line to run for the front.

[edwardb]

I'm curious if it is better to measure and bend the line on a workbench, then put it into place. I've been bending the line as I fit it into place.

Bend in place. For the more complicated bends (that would be most of them for me...) made a pattern first, then duplicated with the real piece. I stripped out some 12 gauge insulated solid copper wire from some Romex I had around. That worked pretty well to make patterns. You can use just about any soft wire. Since I was running new stainless, I used the provided FFR steel brake lines as sacrificial patterns for the complicated parts. Use the actual bender(s) for the patterns so the radius of the curves are the same.

[Scott Zackowski]

Bend in place. For the more complicated bends (that would be most of them for me...) made a pattern first, then duplicated with the real piece. I stripped out some 12 gauge insulated solid copper wire from some Romex I had around. That worked pretty well to make patterns. You can use just about any soft wire. Since I was running new stainless, I used the provided FFR steel brake lines as sacrificial patterns for the complicated parts. Use the actual bender(s) for the patterns so the radius of the curves are the same.

Definitely bend in place. I too went with stainless and used both auto part store line and the supplied FFR lines for practice. Once I got each section the way I wanted it, I then used that line as a template for the final stainless line. It is a learned skill and you definitely get better with practice. The front crossover was the most challenging for me.

I started the front brake line at the passenger brake and then worked it to the driver side T-connector. Once you have it lined up with Tee, mark it at the edge of the T-connector and add 3/8 inch (1/4 inch for inside of coupler and 1/8 inch for loss for the flare, if making your own flares) and cut the tube.

Mk IV, Complete kit, FFR 7304

[Scott Zackowski]

Definitely bend in place. I too went with stainless and used both auto part store line and the supplied FFR lines for practice. Once I got each section the way I wanted it, I then used that line as a template for the final stainless line. It is a learned skill and you definitely get better with practice. The front crossover was the most challenging for me.

I started the front brake line at the passenger brake and then worked it to the driver side T-connector. Once you have it lined up with Tee, mark it at the edge of the T-connector and add 3/8 inch (1/4 inch for inside of coupler and 1/8 inch for loss for the flare, if making your own flares) and cut the tube.

Mk IV, Complete kit, FFR 7304

I was just re-reading my own post and realized that my use of "bend in place" may be confusing. As described above, I would start at one end (obviously flare and slide on tube nut) make a bend or curve (between two 1 1/2 inch sockets) and then size it up on the car, even loosely attach the tube nut, determine next bend, mark bend point with Sharpie pen, remove tube, place in vise with jaws padded with soft plastic vice pads, make my bend (obviously off the car) and then take the tube back to the car and determine next bend, and so on.

When bending always "under" bend, can always bend more with the bending tool but more difficult to straighten once over bent.
Also, keep in mind how you are going to attach the line clamps and where.

Even once my template was formed with standard metal lines, I still made the stainless lines in the same fashion - make a bend and size it up in the car - mark and make the next bend. The only difference once the template was formed, I could verify the bend angle and degrees off the template, making the final piece go faster and less likely to make an error.

So, I guess my technique was a hybrid of bend in place and bending on the bench. Many different ways to make the lines and each person works out their own technique, but no substitute for practice.