Looking for help straightening out a mess...

[exwestracer]

I'm looking for help with some of the parts common to the Type 65 builds. The car in question has sat for a number of years (some outside! :( ) and is basically a new car in need of a full restoration. My customer knows nothing about the car, and I don't want to charge him to "re-invent" the wheel. I'm hoping to find a Type 65 build "guru" who might have some info I can tap.
Thanks in advance.

Ray Kaufman

[Dave Disque]

I'm looking for help with some of the parts common to the Type 65 builds. The car in question has sat for a number of years (some outside! :( ) and is basically a new car in need of a full restoration. My customer knows nothing about the car, and I don't want to charge him to "re-invent" the wheel. I'm hoping to find a Type 65 build "guru" who might have some info I can tap.
Thanks in advance.

Ray Kaufman

Contact this gentleman...he finished a type 65 about a year ago. wonorcutt@comcast.net I did a MK IV and we are both in Pitsburgh.

Dave Disque

[John Dol]

Contact Mark Dougherty. He's an all around FFR guru, and probably your best bet.

John

PS He's also in PA

[michael everson]

You can PM me with any questions.
I have built three couples over the years.
Mike

[exwestracer]

Thanks for the replies, guys. I will surely be in touch with some (or all!) of you soon.

I'm sure I'll have some dumb sounding questions, but I have my reasons; and I'm pretty good at what I do. Just new to the FFR Coupe...

For starters, has anyone used locking prop supports (like on 60s Vettes) instead of the gas struts to hold the tilt hood up? The strut mounts on this car are all torn up, and neither the customer nor I like the constant pressure the struts place on the brackets when the hood is closed and latched.

[turbonut48]

The struts dont exert constant pressure.They exert resistance to movement from their existing positioning. My originals didnt have enough resistance, I replaced them with stronger units. They snapped right on and work great.

The Nut

[exwestracer]

Not going to belabor the point... I push in, the strut pushes back. I gotta think they are doing the same thing when the hood is latched. Just curious if anyone had used the mechanical supports.

[michael everson]

I haven't found any that are a direct replacement. It would be nice to find something that lock open and releases when opened a little more.
Mike

[DARKPT]

The struts for the hood aren't a problem. If you're concerned about the hood coming down, grab some PVC and cut it lengthwise. Slip it over the piston when you open the hood.

Now, the hatch struts are another matter, especially if you have the clear plexi hatch from the Gen1 Coupe. I didn't like what the struts were doing to the hatch when I tried to close it, so I bought some two piece "elbow" struts that hinge in the middle.

Keep the questions coming. There is more than one way to fix just about any problem.

[exwestracer]

I haven't found any that are a direct replacement. It would be nice to find something that lock open and releases when opened a little more.
Mike

I've been eyeballing the ones from 60s Vettes. The length is about right, but the Coupe struts are horizontal when open; and I'm not sure the mechanical ones will operate correctly in that position. PLENTY of other problems to solve on this thing in the meantime....

[Jeff Kleiner]

Another vote for Mark Daugherty, (717) 773-5624. He travels all over the country helping out builders who are stuck plus has his own shop near Hershey. Knows these cars inside & out (and is just an all around great guy!).

Jeff

[CHAZC5ZX]

I had A problem with the lift cylinders pushing on my hood when closed, it just wouldn't stay in adjustment
I used A set of telescopic lid supports from Reid supply made A bracket on the hood end for A heim joint with A couple of shoulder bolts from Mcmaster Carr and it works great.
Chaz...
( I'm going to try to put up A couple or pics on my photobucket)

[exwestracer]

I had A problem with the lift cylinders pushing on my hood when closed, it just wouldn't stay in adjustment
I used A set of telescopic lid supports from Reid supply made A bracket on the hood end for A heim joint with A couple of shoulder bolts from Mcmaster Carr and it works great.
Chaz...
( I'm going to try to put up A couple or pics on my photobucket)

Yes, please drop by with a link when you get them posted. Thanks.

[CHAZC5ZX]

http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u544/ChazC5ZX/DSC00821_zpsca1a4a17.jpg

[exwestracer]

http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u544/ChazC5ZX/DSC00821_zpsca1a4a17.jpg

Thanks, CHAZ. That is exactly what I had in mind. My wife deals with Reid through her upholstery business. Would you still happen to have the P/N?

(This one? http://www.reidsupply.com/sku/ECS-1099/)

[CHAZC5ZX]

OK ex...starting at the front. I made A replacement bracket from 3/16 steel drilled & taped for 5/16-18 the bracket need's A slight bend to the inside
3/8 heim joint with fine thread, and 3/8 shoulder bolt with 5/16-18 thread. the angle for the heim joint fit's snugly inside the lid support to prevent rotation, front nut is welded on.
At the rear is 1/4 insh shoulder bolt with 10-32 thread and lock nut. hope this helps.
Chaz...http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u544/ChazC5ZX/bth_DSC01076_zps328730fe.jpg?t=1370793608
lid support # ECS-1097 needs to have cam release 1099 is push button

[exwestracer]

OK ex...starting at the front. I made A replacement bracket from 3/16 steel drilled & taped for 5/16-18 the bracket need's A slight bend to the inside
3/8 heim joint with fine thread, and 3/8 shoulder bolt with 5/16-18 thread. the angle for the heim joint fit's snugly inside the lid support to prevent rotation, front nut is welded on.
At the rear is 1/4 insh shoulder bolt with 10-32 thread and lock nut. hope this helps.
Chaz...http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u544/ChazC5ZX/bth_DSC01076_zps328730fe.jpg?t=1370793608
lid support # ECS-1097 needs to have cam release 1099 is push button

Thanks, that helps a lot. I'm using 1/8" 4130 plate to make both hood and frame brackets. Since the stock gas strut is about 1 1/2" longer than the lid support anyway, I think I'll use a ball stud heim in much the same way as you did on the hood side

[Mark Dougherty]

Hi guys
back from Carlisle helping the OCC sell tickets for this years raffle car.
Wow
what a nice car.
Ray
I would be happy to help in any way I can.
just give me a ring.
Later
Mark D

[exwestracer]

Here's just ONE example of what I'm dealing with.
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Battery is mounted under the rear panel with no access cover. Absolutely NO way to disconnect the top terminals, OR get the battery out of the car! Also, note clearance to the positive terminal (that piece of red plastic at right was laid over the post.). So, I'll be converting everything to mount on the side posts and adding an access cover in the front panel.

[Timb]

Yikes. Personally I moved mine to the engine bay and never looked back. Not the clearest picture but you can see where I put it right behind the front "x" brace
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-M2_3pjMkb64/UBHSwo8I_EI/AAAAAAAAAOc/CY7tru50SME/s1600/IMG_6322.JPG

[exwestracer]

Timb, I've seen them mounted in that location, and I brought that option up to the customer. It would involve too much re-wiring at this point...

[tirod]

Definitely move the battery. The positive points are better access, shorter wiring, less voltage drop, and improves the weight bias - these cars are actually 49/51 tail heavy. What happened is when Detroit iron cars with 60/40 weight bias moved batteries to the trunk for race purposes, people expected that because the kit is "race car." and The Customer Is Always Right. So we get the battery in the back where it's wrong. Shelby mounted it on the footbox for good reasons.

As for a means of holding up a hood - including windy days - the simple prop rod that locks into a plate is a simple and sure method. No pressure when down, no locking releases to flip unlocked when the wind catches it, causing it to subsequently fall after the breeze passes. The Coupe was nothing more than a prototype GT with no street car development, the nose just went overcenter and rested on the ground. Since it was constantly attended by a team at a track, no problem. One owner at a show, no way to even go to the bathroom. It needs something.

[exwestracer]

Definitely move the battery. .

As for a means of holding up a hood - including windy days - the simple prop rod that locks into a plate is a simple and sure method. It needs something.

You know what they say...the customer is always right. I don't think perfect weight bias is high on his priority list for this car. His budget just won't support a rip out and rewire of all main cables, given all the other stuff I have to attend to.

I'm still kicking around the idea of a prop rod, but we definitely agree we don't want to put the gas struts back on.

[CJBergquist]

I used a battery box from FFMetal http://www.ffmetal.com/batteryboxpage.html

Optima battery sits low enough that the battery posts clear the aluminum floor.

http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2721/4154102381_d6c7fbb951_z.jpg?zz=1

[exwestracer]

I used a battery box from FFMetal http://www.ffmetal.com/batteryboxpage.html

Optima battery sits low enough that the battery posts clear the aluminum floor.

http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2721/4154102381_d6c7fbb951_z.jpg?zz=1

That's a good looking setup. Always nice when you can plan that sort of thing from the start....

[exwestracer]

Today's fun and games...
Driver's seat bracket was never finish welded, then someone else had come back and laid a bunch of bird poop on it.
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Cleaned all that off...
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I had to cut a hole in the floor to get to some of the areas that weren't welded.
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When I disconnected the computer to protect it, I found another little surprise.
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[Timb]

I'm more surprised by the rusty water in the foot box than the but connectors.

[exwestracer]

Tackled the hood support latch bars today. I got the ones CHAZ suggested from Reid Supply (excellent company to deal with, and ALL KINDS of cool stuff in the catalog). All was going well, I used the old bracket holes and strut length as a reference. I used 1/4" bolts with backing plates instead of the 10/32 button heads (WHY...?!?!) through the fiberglass. I went to latch the hood up and discovered the original frame end strut brackets weren't anywhere near the same locations on the left and right sides...by about 1 1/2". Oh boy, here we go again. Can't determine which one is "right" until I get the car back on the ground and see how far the hood will open before it hits the ground.

Also got the new supercharger air plumbing installed. It looks and fits much better than what was on it before. I'll post some pics tomorrow in case anyone is interested.

[exwestracer]

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At the bottom is the original supercharger plumbing. 2 3/4 to 4 to 3 1/2"... HUH?
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New plumbing installed
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New hood latch bars. I hadn't installed the doubler plates on the hood at this point. The hood attachment point is a 1/4" ball and socket joint (like a go-kart tie rod end). I ended up moving the frame mount on the passengers side about 1" to get the latch bars synchronized! Personally, I like this setup much better than the struts. The hood is very solid when latched up, and the latch bars don't exert any pressure on the hood when closed.

[exwestracer]

Took the dash out last night so Melissa (asylumcustominteriors.com (http://asylumcustominteriors.com)) could upholster it, and so I could evaluate adding a battery lead to the shutoff switch. I've decided (from good advice from forum members) to move the battery up to the "X" in front of the engine.

Just when I thought it couldn't get ANY worse... Last night was "spaghetti" night in the shop. I have an epic hatred of bad wiring, and this is bad. Pictures to follow.

[riptide motorsport]

Always interesting listening to someones opinion of anothers work..................and their opinion of their own. Reminds me of one of Mark Twains quote about good breeding.

[loeffler1]

riptide

That was priceless!!!

[exwestracer]

Always interesting listening to someones opinion of anothers work..................and their opinion of their own. Reminds me of one of Mark Twains quote about good breeding.

No drama here... A big part of my "day job" is pointing out bad workmanship and teaching people how to do these things better. My comments also come from a genuine respect for craftsmen like Phil Remington and the rest of the guys who built the original Daytona Coupes. I respect what the Type 65 represents; and I also believe that these cars deserve better than what this one got the first time around.

[exwestracer]

Well it looks like the worst is over on the re-wire. It took awhile, but I figured out the whole puzzle and I've eliminated all the redundant power circuits and random switches.
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I'll be making a new (stock) dash just because it's easier than trying to cover up all the extra holes. HUGE thanks to Bill (bil1024) for sending me a "rescue" harness pigtail. The old double spliced one is at the bottom of the photo.
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The solenoid is re-located near the starter, and there are no longer any battery cables running inside the car.
20451
I also got the new battery box (Afco) mounted and added an overflow tank on the side (hard to see in the picture).
20454
The engine now has an Airaid filter instead of nothing at all, and the supercharger plumbing is sized correctly.
20452

Hopefully the "Stepchild" will be running again in a couple of weeks.

[exwestracer]

Starting on the new dash. I made it an inch taller on the face to help cover up more of the A/C components. Since the steering shaft is not adjustable, I figured it didn't need that huge slot in the dash panel. At top left of the old dash you can see the hole for the master battery switch. I moved it to the face, and this will now be the "car key". Gauges will be moved slightly for better visibility, and I'm adding another central A/C vent for passenger comfort.
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Bent using the old "edge of the frame bench" sheet metal brake...

[exwestracer]

Had to pull the rear panel out to chase more of the never ending wiring mess... I saw a shop rag wedged down between the fuel tank can and the body. When I went to pull it out, I discovered it was wrapped around a $2.99 fuel filter that had been cut in half and used for a tank vent.
20859
At this point I'm not even surprised. Somehow the idea of soaking a shop rag in gasoline in the event of a rollover doesn't seem all that clever...?

[exwestracer]

Finally time to bolt the seats in, and I discovered that one of the seat mount holes on the passenger's side is drilled and tapped into the main frame rail. Maybe that's common, I don't know; but I DO know what I found next isn't good. I had stuck a pencil in the hole to see if it went through, and it came out wet. That bolt hole became a major problem when the car sat outside and the seat filled with rain water...
2092620927

My helper drilled a hole in the bottom of the frame rail and we drained just about a gallon (really) of water out.

[exwestracer]

New dash mocked up for pre-wiring.
20973
The long toggles on the left might not be everyone's cup of tea, but they allow the high beams and turn signals to be operated without taking a hand off the wheel. The large red button next to the oil pressure gauge is the 4 way flasher switch (lit). With a little wiring trickery it will double as a low oil pressure light.

[SoulsofBlack]

looks good

[exwestracer]

Well, I thought I had the "mystery wire" figured out the other night...I was wrong. The wire in question is 12V+ hot in run (it WAS wired directly to a fuse under the dash) and runs up over the top of the fuel tank where I can't see it anymore.

It is NOT the power for the pump or the trigger power for the pump relay. I have those definitely identified. All the American Auto Wire schematics show a single wire to the fuel gauge (typical variable resistor to ground), as does the stock 5.0 Mustang schematic.

What am I missing? What the hell needs full time ignition power on top of the fuel tank???? There are other wires that go nowhere in the back of the car, and I'm removing them one by one, but I need to know what this does before I can decide whether or not to get rid of it. If I can't get this figured out, that means the fuel tank cover panel has to come out.

Getting pretty tired of drilling out rivets to chase bad wiring...

[WIS89]

Not to offer any unsolicited advice, but I am going to do just that... Sorry in advance! When I hear about water inside of frame rails, I get a little nervous because you never know how long it has been there, or how much damage has been done.

Eastwood (and others likely as well) makes a product that you can spray into the inside of the frame to seal any existing rust or oxidation that is likely happening inside the frame rails. This sounds like the perfect opportunity to give this product a try.

Again, sorry for sticking my nose in your business, but I just wanted to share something I thought might be beneficial.

Best of luck as you continue to tackle the Gremlins!

Regards,

Steve


Finally time to bolt the seats in, and I discovered that one of the seat mount holes on the passenger's side is drilled and tapped into the main frame rail. Maybe that's common, I don't know; but I DO know what I found next isn't good. I had stuck a pencil in the hole to see if it went through, and it came out wet. That bolt hole became a major problem when the car sat outside and the seat filled with rain water...
2092620927

My helper drilled a hole in the bottom of the frame rail and we drained just about a gallon (really) of water out.

[exwestracer]

I made the customer aware of the problem. I'm pretty sure it will be addressed when the car goes in for paint and body work.

[exwestracer]

Well, I'm starting to run out of things on the "to-do" list...finally. But the Coupe wasn't quite finished with me yet... It's time to put the headers back on, and I discover that when they were ported to match the Avenger heads, someone ground through most of the side welds next to the bolt holes.
21490
So, they fusion welded the cracks up, leaving NO sealing surface between the hole and the port. I should have known by the amount of red silicone on the gaskets. We had to build the sides back up, then file everything flat again. Fun, fun...

[loeffler1]

This is starting to sound like some of Jack Lawrence's old posts. Old timers will remember him. I hope you've met the end of your problems with this coupe. Sounds like the past builder came from the old 10# hammer school. If it didn't fit give it a couple hard whacks with a sledge! LOL

[riptide motorsport]

I wonder what Jack has been "up" to !!!!!!!!! :)

[exwestracer]

Well, the engine compartment is done other than a little re-wrapping of the harness. I had to un-wrap part of it as "they" threw in a color change on some of the EFI circuits....shocking. I'm also contemplating building a stainless heat shield to isolate the "dryer vent" inlet hose from the header. Think I'll wait until we run it some to see how hot that area actually gets now that the header is ceramic coated.
22319
I also incorporated a check valve into the fuel cell vent. It may have one inside the tank, but I have no way of being sure; and I'm not digging in there just to find out. So the front is done, the rear is done (minus re-installing the panels), and the dash is done. How come I don't feel any closer to getting this thing out of the shop...:confused:
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