possibility of a "S/R mash-up" kit?

[RelfF2]

Hey all, great board...

so, I've started looking for a project car for my daughter and I to start, and while i was looking at '32 Highboys, I've really fallen for the 818 idea -- i love the whole time attack/track day weapon category, and I've always been a fan of 2.0L turbo turner cars, WRC platform cars, and the Subaru WRX specifically.

Now, i really like the 818R -- it looks harder and I would love to do some track-days with it, but the reality is that my wife won't let me build it, and my daughter wont want to help if it only has one seat. Plus, as track focused and purposeful as i would like it to look (and be), it should also work for cruising down to the fro-yo place and storming a back road on a Saturday morning.

I'm not going to ask about an 818R two-seater, that idea has sailed at this point, and i know another seat won't fit in there without cutting up and re-welding the cage, which i have no interest in doing.

But, what i would like to do is start with a S and incorporate some R elements. From the order sheet it doesn't look like it's an issue to order an S with the splitter, ground kit, and wing, but i'm wondering about is the dash and windscreen, etc.

Any issue with, and is it possible to, order an S with the R's abbreviated windscreen, dash, and other more race-inspired interior elements?

What do you guys think? BTW i'm picturing the above on a blue car with gold/bronze wheels and some tasteful striping that plays on the whole Subaru connection. Thanks!

Craig.

[Mechie3]

Dave has said lots of options will be interchaneable, but no specifics yet.

My name is Craig also, btw. Here's a photoshop someone did for me thats similar to the colors you mentioned.

http://i897.photobucket.com/albums/ac177/ehansen007/818/818Rver1.jpg

[RelfF2]

Thanks for the reply! that's what i was figuring the answer would be -- either that or, "no, idiot, it won't work because of [x]." lol.

and thanks for that shop -- looks like an S with the ground kit, wing, and race seats, it just needs the stubby windscreen and it would really be what i'm going for. Paint wise i would go with solid blue, those wheels, and then looking at that pic i had an idea to put some yellow stripping along the bottom to match the wheels, kind of like this:

17700

PS, if you guys want to turn this into a Subaru motif photoshop thread i'm cool with that. ;)
.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Hey Craig and Craig,
I'm going for the same as Craig's (Mechie3) picture above. I'm going to build an 818RS
Start with the street chassis, street doors, upgrade to race shock package, upgrade to race wing, upgrade to race spliter and side skirts, upgrade to street soft top, street windshield, and blue gel coat.
I talked to Jim and Dave at SEMA. It sounded to me that my type of changes were not going to be a problem.
I expect a option sheet with a lot of check boxes maybe 4 or 5 weeks before my ship date.
I'm looking at 2 color options. see below
Bob


1770917710

[metalmaker12]

I am building an 818sr Sti with the carbon dash and aero kit minus wing, with 325-350whp powered by17711 ej207

[shinn497]

Why would you want the stubby windscreen? Wouldn't that make the car require a helmet.

I think a rear wing + diffuser + splitter would work wonders for this car....especially since it is being aerodynamically tested.

[DodgyTim]

I'm going to build an SR but starting from the other direction. I've ordered the R and will then remove the rollcage cross brace and add a seat, if possible. Here in the nanny country of Australia we'll have to perform a torsional test before registration, so maybe the cross brace will have to stay. I already have a Cobra for road use, so my goal for the 818 is much more "track" than "road". We won't need a helmet as we are allowed to run without a windshield, but I'm sure eye protection will be a must.

[bnr32jason]

I'm not going to go as far as some of you, but I will be doing a 818 S with the R aero bits like the splitter, rear wing, rear diffuser, side skirts, etc.

[RelfF2]

Why would you want the stubby windscreen? Wouldn't that make the car require a helmet.

fair enough question. mostly just for the look and feel of it. Looks wise, it's more recognizable as a one-off/hot rod/race-type car -- reminds me of an old Porsche roadster, and before coming here, my plan was for a '32 Ford highboy which would have had a low, chopped windshield as well. It also seems like this car is going to be fairly small on the inside, so I'd rather have the cockpit as open as possible and i'm planning on racing seats to get as low in the car as possible being 6'.

I didn't think that the windshield choice would have much effect on the need for a helmet. My assumption was that the windshield was not stress bearing in the event of a roll over anyway.

Wind-wise, i envision three main uses for this car. On the track i will be wearing a full-face helmet so no issue there. Street use, I don't think wind will be much of an issue for just driving around the subdivision and down to the square to cruise around. The last use I envision is bombing the twisty back roads on a weekend morning, and that will undoubtedly be windy, but no more so than when i do the same thing on my motorcycle and for that i sometimes rely on some wrap-around sun glasses and a visor-less helmet. That works fine, so i imagine those sun glasses will work fine with the 818 as well.

Lastly, this thing isn't going anywhere if the forecast is even remotely iffy anyway.

[bnr32jason]

I didn't think that the windshield choice would have much effect on the need for a helmet. My assumption was that the windshield was not stress bearing in the event of a roll over anyway.


The reason for a helmet would be to keep debris such as rocks and bugs hitting you in the face. As a long time motorcycle rider I can tell you, even while wearing protective gear, getting hit by a rock or other debris still hurts. I got a broken knuckle (through thick winter riding gloves) when a rock about the size of a dime was thrown back towards me from a car. Imagine taking something like that to the face. Eye protection simply isn't enough in my opinion. We can try to play 1950's Grand Prix driver all we want, but it's just not a good idea. For the track only, fine, you'll be wearing a helmet, but I would think you would have to be crazy to drive without a helmet if you have no windshield. But then again, squids in Florida and other no-helmet-law states ride motorcycles with a backwards hat, shorts, and sandals. So hey, what do I know.

[Turboguy]

Lastly, this thing isn't going anywhere if the forecast is even remotely iffy anyway.


Where do I find the forecast that predicts if someone will be hit in the face with rocks or other road debris while driving their car?

[tmoretta]

There is also the issue of state registration. I also prefer the R model, but want the option of registering the car here in Conn. where a full safety glass windshield and wiper are required. So, I still haven't decided which model 818 I will end up with. I like the R for track safety, but want/need a windshield and passenger seat. We'll see.

[BipDBo]

If you want to do an R/S mashup, the question of whether to race up an 818S or plush up a 818R should probably start with two questions:
* How important to you is opening a door? Are you OK with jumping over Dukes style? Arial Atom buyers do it.
* Are you going to need to buy a top option to keep rain at bay? This question would likely be answered by where you live. I'm in Florida where storms, in the summer especially, frequently come from nowhere. We don't know yet if the soft-top option will even be compatible with the 818R. Even if it is, it might be completely impractical. If the 818 top is anything like the MK4 top, it will probably require a lot of steps to assemble & disassemble. If you put a top on an 818R, you'll need to be able to be limber enough to crawl through a very small window opening. Unless you're a contortionist, I doubt this is an option. As I understand, the windshield will be compatible with the 818R right out of the box, for a few extra bucks.

If you start with the 818R, you will have a stiffer, stronger and safer car, but it will probably be a little heavier. I doubt that installing a passenger seat in the 818R will be very difficult. I'm sure that either the builders or FFR racing will be making that modification soon. Even without that cross brace, I'm sure that the 818R frame is way more robust than needed for street purposes.

Early in the design contest Dave said that the vision for the 818 would be something along the lines of an Arial Atom, but with more cocoon around the driver to make it more comfortable to share the road with large trucks. An 818R would never be a daily commuter, but with a windshield and a passenger seat, it could make a rather nice weekend open roadster. For those who don't live where there is a lot of stop and go traffic, and enjoy driving more than creature comforts, an 818S could make a rather awesome daily commuter, particularly if fitted with AC.

[RelfF2]

Where do I find the forecast that predicts if someone will be hit in the face with rocks or other road debris while driving their car?

fair enough, i wasn't thinking about that when i typed that out, i was thinking about wind, weather, etc.

And, yes, with that in the front of my mind now i can tell you that I too ride a motorcycle and am familiar with getting hit by stuff. I wear full gear now, but didn't always. I remember getting smacked by a bug here and there, and even rain drops can hurt if you're going fast enough, but I can't say that there was a steady enough stream of gravel to the face to make me reconsider this design + some shatter proof wrap around sun glasses for cruising around. now, for back road twisty storming, more protection may be required...

[Xusia]

The reason for a helmet would be to keep debris such as rocks and bugs hitting you in the face. As a long time motorcycle rider I can tell you, even while wearing protective gear, getting hit by a rock or other debris still hurts. I got a broken knuckle (through thick winter riding gloves) when a rock about the size of a dime was thrown back towards me from a car. Imagine taking something like that to the face. Eye protection simply isn't enough in my opinion. We can try to play 1950's Grand Prix driver all we want, but it's just not a good idea. For the track only, fine, you'll be wearing a helmet, but I would think you would have to be crazy to drive without a helmet if you have no windshield. But then again, squids in Florida and other no-helmet-law states ride motorcycles with a backwards hat, shorts, and sandals. So hey, what do I know.


Where do I find the forecast that predicts if someone will be hit in the face with rocks or other road debris while driving their car?

I've also been riding motorcycles a long time and agree - with both of you! This still sounds VERY judgmental. It IS his choice, whether we agree or not. And let's face it; he's not likely to die from getting hit in the face by debris...

[bnr32jason]

It wasn't meant to be so much judgmental as it was meant to be a "Hey! That's dangerous!"

Top Gear tested the Ariel Atom and KTM Xbow without a helmet, on a closed circuit of course. I've ridden in one of the first Atom's brought in through Brammo Motorsports in Oregon and even doing 40mph I didn't feel right just wearing eye protection. Imagine even a pebble hitting you in the face at 60mph, no thanks.

[RelfF2]

haha, starting to feel like Stu in the hangover, "i'm standing right here...so.... i can here everything that you're saying..."

First, thanks for the "defense" but ultimately unnecessary. I've been around the internet long enough to not be offended by a little sarcasm.

Second, like i said, i ride a motorcycle too, so they didn't teach me anything new, just reminded me of something I hadn't given significant weight to.

Third, I admitted that it would be problematic for more serious road use, and i'm not the kind of guy to blindly defend or become married to every thought i have. I also haven't ruled out the possibility that wearing a helmet for trips to the twisties might be worth the look and feel of the more open cockpit.

lastly, the registration issue is a really good point, i'll have to look into that. My state is pretty relaxed about that kind of stuff, but I haven't done any research on that yet. I kind of assumed that it would be fine in the same way that all the highboys, t-buckets, and Spyders are OK, but i will of course have that figured out well before order time.

[Xusia]

Sorry. Just trying to prevent new people from being scared off. Carry on...

[RelfF2]

no, it's all good. BTW, is that a ZX-10 you have there? Here is my 600 Honda, she's an oldie, but a goodie: 17716

back on topic, i did a very rough MSPaint mock up of what i'm thinking re an S with R windscreen and the stripping/two-tone idea i had above. just have to change the colors to blue over yellow with gold/bronze wheels. 17717

[Xusia]

Good eye! That is a 2004 ZX-10R. It was 2 bikes ago. Have a 2008 currently. Best bike I've ever owned. Yours looks like an F2?

On topic: I like those graphics.

[Movieman]

I have to chime in a little about helmets.
The human body is in many ways one tough SOB but not the head.
As I told a friend one day " I could take a 2x4 and beat you for an hour with it and you'd probably survive but one hit in the head and your gone.
The NEXT day that same friend took his buddy's ZX10( thats what brought this to mind) and drove it 25MPG down his cul-de-sac but being a old fart he was used to the old bikes where you could get away with using just the front brakes. He launched himself over the bars and came down head first on a fist sized rock.
I got the call that night from his mrs and 6 days later they pulled the plug as he was brain dead.
I dropped a bike once myself back in the mid 70's, going around a traffic circle, rear tire hit a pot hole, jumped it but hit oil on the street..Going maybe 25MPH and no sensation of going down, just up then down.
Smacked my head when I went down and cracked the helmet from front to back.
Two ladies helped me get the bike home.
I went to bed, got up the next day to go to work and while shaving passed out on the bathroom floor.
That happenned twice in 5 minutes..Concussion, 25MPH and a helmet.. Your head is a very weak part so protect it.
I would hate to see any of you hurt unneccessarily.

[clintavo]

Yikes, that sucks.
As a pilot, I used to fly transplant doctors to organ donor "harvests." Dog only knows how many bodies were left serviceable without operative brains...

[Movieman]

Yikes, that sucks.
As a pilot, I used to fly transplant doctors to organ donor "harvests." Dog only knows how many bodies were left serviceable without operative brains...
There are so many ways that we lose friends over the years. Almost 1/2 my HS graduating class from 1969 is gone.
Many to the Vietnam War, many to cancer and other illness. Some to drugs and a few to what I call just plain stupid accidents.
The guy I spoke of on the bike was a good friend. Thirty eight at the time and I have both anger at his stupidity and sorrow at his loss.
You meet many people on this journey through life. Some that you see that certain something in that draws you to them and you become friends.
A few that you get the opposite reaction to and you distance yourself from them.
Then there is the vast amount where you don't get to know them well enough to make that decision.
I see in the writing here on this forum some very good people.
Most I will never meet but I hope they will tuck into their heads the importance of helmets.
They can and will save your life.
For those few who think helmets aren't worth the bother think about your wives, children and your friends.
Think of the impact your passing would have on their lives.

[Xusia]

I don't know if it will ease your concern any, but you will notice in the photo (if you look close enough), I'm armored from head to toe. And that is typically how I ride - even to work! Every now and again I take a trek the couple miles from my house to the closest Redbox/store/etc. in less; and feel naked the whole time(!) asking myself, WHY I did that?? It's the memory of that feeling that prompts me to don my gear.

As a long time rider, I've been down a few times, and only the first one was without gear (you could say I learned my lession!). In all the other instances, I escaped unscathed. Gear works. Wear it people.

[Mechie3]

There's a guy at work with an MG he drives occasionally. One day he showed up with a quarter size bloody mark on his head. A truck had kicked up a rock, shot through the flipped up sun visor, and smacked his forehead (his forehead barely peeked over the top of the windshield). There's a good quarter sized hole in the sun visor now too.

[RM1SepEx]

years ago I rode ALL the time. Armoured like Xusia... just changed an added a tie at work. Needed a new watch, less than a mile to the mall. Drove over, no helmet, no jacket, dress pants, shoes etc..

A lady pulled out in front of me and stopped on the access road. I wasn't doing 25 mph, stood my FZ750 up on the front wheel and stuck it in her grill, I went up over the hood, landed on her roof and came down on my feet. knocked on the window, she rolled it down, I told her not to back up, my bike would fall over and it would cost her more.

Several years earlier, slowed to avoid someone turning, the car in back of my didn't slow fast enough, hit my rear tire. I slid about 50 feet down the road on my face... if not for that full face helmet? hamburger and death?

You can't afford to not have protection... A small bird at 50 mph leaves a big bruise for weeks... even with an armoured coat

[Movieman]

There's a guy at work with an MG he drives occasionally. One day he showed up with a quarter size bloody mark on his head. A truck had kicked up a rock, shot through the flipped up sun visor, and smacked his forehead (his forehead barely peeked over the top of the windshield). There's a good quarter sized hole in the sun visor now too.

Yes, years ago I was going down the highway passing a 18 wheeler and he kicked a baseball sized rock into my winshield and although it didn't go through the inside splattered into 1000 tiny slivers and luckily I had sunglasses on..Covered my face with tiny cuts but I lucked out that day..Boy was I pissed! The car was brand new and didn't have a scratch on it until then.

[RelfF2]

Good eye! That is a 2004 ZX-10R. It was 2 bikes ago. Have a 2008 currently. Best bike I've ever owned. Yours looks like an F2?

On topic: I like those graphics.

yeah, '94 F2, had it for a while. its funny because every winter I look at 600RRs and ZX-6Rs, and then every spring i go for a ride and think, 'this thing is perfect and all i need.' I love Honda, just keep tires on it and the oil changed and it will go forever.

I ride geared up too, helmet, armored jacket, and race gloves and boots. I've only had one real get off and I was fine -- only bleed from one place: my knee...because that was the only place i wasn't wearing leather (jeans). ugh.

[BrandonDrums]

I've also been riding motorcycles a long time and agree - with both of you! This still sounds VERY judgmental. It IS his choice, whether we agree or not. And let's face it; he's not likely to die from getting hit in the face by debris...

I disagree, a pebble at 60mph through his sunglasses could mean loosing vision (and probably an entire eye) and driving straight into a tree or into another car or...off a cliff if you were in the hills.

Heck once I was sitting STILL at a red light near my house with my windows rolled down. A loaded dump truck turning onto the road I was sitting on ran over and pinched out a small rock from it's back tire and launched it past my nose and cracked the inside of the windshield. Had that hit me in the temple, I could have literally gotten a cracked skull.

[Xusia]

I disagree, a pebble at 60mph through his sunglasses could mean loosing vision (and probably an entire eye) and driving straight into a tree or into another car or...off a cliff if you were in the hills.

Heck once I was sitting STILL at a red light near my house with my windows rolled down. A loaded dump truck turning onto the road I was sitting on ran over and pinched out a small rock from it's back tire and launched it past my nose and cracked the inside of the windshield. Had that hit me in the temple, I could have literally gotten a cracked skull.

Which is why I said "...not LIKELY..." as opposed to "won't." Still, I support personal choice; even when I think it's stupid. <-- General comment, not directed at anyone or anything here.

[RM1SepEx]

yeah, '94 F2, had it for a while. its funny because every winter I look at 600RRs and ZX-6Rs, and then every spring i go for a ride and think, 'this thing is perfect and all i need.' I love Honda, just keep tires on it and the oil changed and it will go forever.

I ride geared up too, helmet, armored jacket, and race gloves and boots. I've only had one real get off and I was fine -- only bleed from one place: my knee...because that was the only place i wasn't wearing leather (jeans). ugh.

I have a 97 F3... it just has almost perfect positioning to ride. I just sold my 98 VFR800, nice bike but it felt a bit heavy. I also found that the gear whine made me want to drive it too fast!

[IMPREZvWRX]

I am building an 818sr Sti with the carbon dash and aero kit minus wing, with 325-350whp powered by17711 ej207

That manifold looks like a twinscroll setup. Version 8? I have the same in my RS coupe, which I plan to use as my 818 donor.

[metalmaker12]

Yeap a Ej207 Version 8 twinscroll, love em

[RelfF2]

well, since I revisited this threat I thought i would tell you that you guys talked me out of the stubby windscreen on the street idea. I still love the look of it and don't think the danger would be too terribly extreme for just puttering around town, but i've come to the conclusion that while that's a risk i'm willing to take, its not a risk i'm willing to subject my daughter to, and that's really the point of building a car together -- to end up with something we can enjoy together. Also, i was driving down the two lane that leads from my neighborhood to the "village" (read downtown of my suburb), and I came to the conclusion that while a 40 mph wind isn't much to me, it would most likely detract from her enjoyment of the car as well.

[longislandwrx]

Looking forward to seeing the configuration page. I'm most likely running the stubby but i'd entertain the idea of adding the windshield later. I already found a pink full face helmet for my 3 year old daughter.