New Tire Options (High Performance Tires)

[bnr32jason]

A few new tires have either just been released in the "Extreme Summer Performance" category, or are in the pipeline for the next 6-12months. These could all be good options for our 818's.

BFGoodrich Rival - Just released, competitively priced ($149 for a 225/45/17), and getting great dry weather reviews (no wet data that I can find yet). Some good information and links can be found on this Facebook post: https://www.facebook.com/notes/hollis-racing/street-tire-faq-part-ii2013/409412972476008

http://www.tirerack.com/images/tires/bfg/bfg_gforce_rival4r_ci2_l.jpg


Bridgestone RE-11A - Available now. No information yet on if this tire is any better or worse than the RE-11. 245/45/17 is $165 each. But the RE-11 has been consistently one of the best tires in performance tests.

http://www.tirerack.com/images/tires/bridgestone/bs_poten_re11a_ci2_l.jpg


Kumho V720 - Rumored release of early 2014. Essentially a more aggressive Kumho XS designed to compete with RE-11A, AD08, an Direzza ZII. Should be priced right around the XS so should be in the $150-170 range for a 225/45/17

http://cdn.mkimg.carview.co.jp/minkara/userstorage/000/001/810/636/9e7155809a.jpg



Other currently available options (not new releases)

Yokohama Advan AD08
Dunlop Direzza ZII
Toyo R1R
Kumho XS
Hankook Ventus RS3



Some recent track testing data from that Facebook link:

44.45 BFG gForce Rival
44.68 Hankook RS-3
44.80 Yokohama AD08
45.32 Dunlop Direzza Z1
45.37 Toyo R1R

And here's the Tire Rack preliminary autocross test with the same trends as the road course:


29.2 BFG gForce Rival
29.4 Hankook RS-3
29.4 Yokohama AD08
29.8 Dunlop Direzza Z1

[RM1SepEx]

GRM just tested them and they really like the rival too...

I'll be using existing Dunlop Direzas for now... on my stock Subaru 16s

[bnr32jason]

The only problem with the Rival that I see right now is availability of semi-wide 18" sizes, right now it's either 245 or 275, no 255 or 265 options. Hopefully that will be alleviated within the next 6 months.

I'm leaning towards the R1R as of right now, if the Rival doesn't come out with 18" sizes that I need.

[Xusia]

Any information on directionality? More specifically, are any of these NON-directional?

[bnr32jason]

Most high performance tires you find nowadays are going to be directional and many are going to be asymmetric. It's not easy to find non-directional performance tires.

[Xusia]

I know that HAD been the case, but I heard recently there was a growing trend away from directional tires. I'd really like to be able to rotate them...

[Silvertop]

Any information on directionality? More specifically, are any of these NON-directional?

I don't know about the others -- but the RE-11A is non-directional. It IS asymmetrical -- which means it has an inside and an outside in reference to the rim -- but it can be rotated and mounted on either side of the car. According to Bridgestone, it has exactly the same tread pattern as the original RE-11, but the rubber compound has been slightly changed. Rumored to be quieter and with increased mileage longevity. Performance compared to the original? Dunno.

[bnr32jason]

I don't know about the others -- but the RE-11A is non-directional. It IS asymmetrical -- which means it has an inside and an outside in reference to the rim -- but it can be rotated and mounted on either side of the car. According to Bridgestone, it has exactly the same tread pattern as the original RE-11, but the rubber compound has been slightly changed. Rumored to be quieter and with increased mileage longevity. Performance compared to the original? Dunno.

I've always thought it was kinda pointless to rotate asymmetrical tires. The only thing you could really do is rotate it from one side to the other, but what's the point in that? The wear is still going to occur in the same area of the tire right? Unless you are running different alignment settings left to right.

Am I missing something here?

[longislandwrx]

Well if you have all four tire sizes equal you can do a standard diagonal rotation.


According to Bridgestone, it has exactly the same tread pattern as the original RE-11, but the rubber compound has been slightly changed. Rumored to be quieter and with increased mileage longevity. Performance compared to the original? Dunno.

Correct the RE-11 was non directional as well. One of the main complaints going from the 01 to the 11 was the wear. The 11s wear out pretty quick they do stick like gum though.

[bnr32jason]

True, but I assume most people are going to run larger rear tires on the 818 since it's a MR configuration. Some of you will be running same size wheels and tires on all four corners?

[mattster03]

I know it's not necessarily an accurate metric, but do you know the treadwear rating on any of these tires?

[longislandwrx]

granted, for the 818.

But I run 4 of the same asymmetrical tire on my WRX and I would not say its pointless.


I know it's not necessarily an accurate metric, but do you know the treadwear rating on any of these tires?

180 on the RE-11 :(

200 on the RE-11A :(

the fact that the price has dropped on the A is what burns my biscuit.. something is not right.

[Erik W. Treves]

We have a guy at work that uses the Rivals during all his SCCA events....he swears by them....

[wleehendrick]

I've always thought it was kinda pointless to rotate asymmetrical tires. The only thing you could really do is rotate it from one side to the other, but what's the point in that? The wear is still going to occur in the same area of the tire right? Unless you are running different alignment settings left to right.

Am I missing something here?

I assume you're referring to wear on the inside of the tread due to negative camber, and that's correct, rotating asymmetrical tires won't address that, since the inside edge is always the same. Since I generally run staggered directional tires, I can't rotate them, unless I re-mount, which I don't bother with.

However, when you swap the side of a car a tire is on (by rotating asymmetricals), you change the direction of rotation of the tire. If done often enough, this can keep the tire noise from getting bad, as uneven wear between the leading/trailing edges of the tread blocks can create tire roar. My tires generally get pretty noisy after 10-15k since I can't rotate.

[nucleus]

On my1997 E36 318i I run Hankook Ventus R-S3's which are a cheap R compound street legal tire.

I like them a lot, they never squeal, and have great stick - but not when they are cold, and I live on a tropical island. It really doesn't get below 70 F.

This is something to keep in mind on a lightweight car, depending on your climate and driving needs.

[metalmaker12]

+1 on the rs3 and the rivals, they both are a great tire when above 50 degrees

[Wayne Presley]

I'm going with the Hankook R3S's or Federal 595's. The Rival isn't available in enough sizes

[FFR-ADV]

Many Interesting Tires in this thread:

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?9234-818SR-Tire-Options-to-maximize-handling-when-off-of-the-track

Those Federal 595 RS-R Tires sure look like they could still be used on the street but yet give most of the performance of the Hoosier "DOT" Track Tires that the 818R was tested with. And what a nice price! They might be like the Hoosiers "DOT" but perhaps they could be used on the street?

http://www.onlinetires.com/products/vehicle/tires/federal/255%252F35-18+federal+595+rs-r+racing+90w+bsw.html

http://www.federaltire.com/en/products_detail.php?products_detail_sn=5

17664

Cheers!

[Xusia]

True, but I assume most people are going to run larger rear tires on the 818 since it's a MR configuration. Some of you will be running same size wheels and tires on all four corners?

I would say that's an incorrect assumption. For instance, I plan to run 17" wheels all around (I haven't decided on width yet, but prob 17x8). The advantages of a larger wheel on the rear is minimal for a street setup like I'm planning, and the downside is I can't rotate them (which means I will likely have to replace them sooner), and I run a greater risk of damage (potholes and such). I love the look , but it just isn't practical for me, and I'm a practical kind of guy...


the fact that the price has dropped on the A is what burns my biscuit.. something is not right.

That doesn't necessarily mean anything. The price drop could be the result of any number of things NOT related to the quality or performance of the tire. For instance, any or all of the following could result in a price decrease:

Manufacturing process improvements
Economies of scale
Raw component(s) price drop
Less R&D dollars spent than the original (and since it's based on the original one, this seems REALLY likely)
Design changes that result in lower production costs
Marketing (i.e. they need to charge less in order to compete; i.e. lower profit margin)

[bnr32jason]

I would say that's an incorrect assumption. For instance, I plan to run 17" wheels all around (I haven't decided on width yet, but prob 17x8). The advantages of a larger wheel on the rear is minimal for a street setup like I'm planning, and the downside is I can't rotate them (which means I will likely have to replace them sooner), and I run a greater risk of damage (potholes and such). I love the look , but it just isn't practical for me, and I'm a practical kind of guy...


You can still run 17's all around, but the idea is to run something like a 17x7 or 17x8 in the front to minimize weight for better steering feel, quicker turn-in, etc, but then running a 17x9 or so in the back so you can fit nice wide grippy tires in the back.

Think about it, the 818R they have been testing which is a mildly modded 2006 WRX engine was having trouble keeping traction on 255mm slicks. Now think about even a stock 2002 WRX motor with say 240hp once it's in the 818 and you are running something like 235's in the back, you aren't going to get traction anywhere on average street tires. But you don't want to run big wide/heavy wheels and tires in the front either. So the ideal setup would be something like they are running on the 818R, 225's in the front and 255's in the rear.

But yeah, if you are going to run 17x8's all around with the same size tires front to rear I'd say go with 235, but spend the money on some very grippy tires (something from the "Extreme Performance Summer" category).

Now if you are doing a NA build, disregard all of this, you can probably run 225's all around and be just fine.

[Xusia]

I didn't think about the width. It's something I'll have to put some more thought into, now (thanks a lot!! hehe). I don't mind giving up the steering feel, quicker turn in, etc. (I'm not racing), so maybe I'll just run 17x9 all around. Decisions, decisions...

[bnr32jason]

Before you commit to a wheel that wide in the front, ask some of the initial kit builders how much clearance they have between the wheel/tire and suspension components. Wayne said there was very little suspension clearance in the rear with a 18x9 +40, so the front might be similar.

[Evan78]

I would probably put handling balance above other factors when deciding on tire sizes. Putting equal size tires front and rear might result in a car that is a little more willing to rotate than you want. Even if you don't plan on approaching the limit because this is your weekend cruiser, emergency avoidance maneuvers may get you in trouble. I'm no handling guru, so take my words with a grain of salt, but that is my thinking with a car with a rear weight bias. I imagine there's lessons for me to learn from other cars are mid-rear engined with similar rear weight bias.

[RM1SepEx]

Many Interesting Tires in this thread:

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?9234-818SR-Tire-Options-to-maximize-handling-when-off-of-the-track

Those Federal 595 RS-R Tires sure look like they could still be used on the street but yet give most of the performance of the Hoosier "DOT" Track Tires that the 818R was tested with. And what a nice price! They might be like the Hoosiers "DOT" but perhaps they could be used on the street?

http://www.onlinetires.com/products/vehicle/tires/federal/255%252F35-18+federal+595+rs-r+racing+90w+bsw.html

http://www.federaltire.com/en/products_detail.php?products_detail_sn=5





17664

Cheers!

from the website:

Description:
Proven on the circuit, the 595RS-R is highly acclaimed and much demanded for drifting, sprinting and track-day applications. The sleek design and ultra high performance of the 595RS-R makes it the number one choice for those requiring a motorsport tire but with the assured standards of a street legal tire. Even DOT approved or E-Mark approved Federal competition tyres are designed and compounded for competition use only and are not intended for highway or road use.

looks like they could be a viable autocross or track day option for someone to try... GRM perhaps could test them!

[StatGSR]

I've always thought it was kinda pointless to rotate asymmetrical tires. The only thing you could really do is rotate it from one side to the other, but what's the point in that? The wear is still going to occur in the same area of the tire right? Unless you are running different alignment settings left to right.

Am I missing something here?

In addition to what has already been said, it is common for a track to be much harder on the tires for one side of the car compared to the other. For example, a track that runs clockwise will likely be harder on the drivers side tires, because there will always be more right turns than left. So rotating tires side to side will provide more even wear and longer overall tire life.

[bnr32jason]

In addition to what has already been said, it is common for a track to be much harder on the tires for one side of the car compared to the other. For example, a track that runs clockwise will likely be harder on the drivers side tires, because there will always be more right turns than left. So rotating tires side to side will provide more even wear and longer overall tire life.

That's an argument I can understand but we're talking about aggressive street tires here, I would figure most serious trackday warriors are going to have a separate set of wheels and tires specifically for that purpose. If the users of these tires are going to track them quite often, I understand. But for average street use with some occasional track time, I don't think it's really needed.

[StatGSR]

That's an argument I can understand but we're talking about aggressive street tires here, I would figure most serious trackday warriors are going to have a separate set of wheels and tires specifically for that purpose. If the users of these tires are going to track them quite often, I understand. But for average street use with some occasional track time, I don't think it's really needed.

Well in reality, most of the tires that have been talked about so far are better suited for a track than a street anyway. most of these have poor low temp performance and equally poor rain performance for a "street" tire. But i guess if your just looking for a tire that works on the street when its sunny and 70 degrees out. most of these will work ok, providing you don't go boomin into a fast corner right outa the driveway.

[bnr32jason]

I've been running tires like AD07/AD08, RE11, RE01R, and even A048's for the last 6 or 7 years and never had a problem with grip on my short commute, but I'm not exactly in Minnesota either (Okinawa Japan) so cold weather wasn't a big deal. But I understand what you are saying, I've tried the lower tier performance tires like Yokohama S-Drive, Falken 912's, etc, and when I did want to go have some fun I was always left wishing I had more tire. Going back to Seattle now, I may have to rethink my choices, but I doubt I'll go with anything less than the tires we are discussing in this thread. If it was a daily driver I would do something a little less aggressive, but it's not.

[papajon1000]

I've been running tires like AD07/AD08, RE11, RE01R, and even A048's for the last 6 or 7 years and never had a problem with grip on my short commute, but I'm not exactly in Minnesota either (Okinawa Japan) so cold weather wasn't a big deal. But I understand what you are saying, I've tried the lower tier performance tires like Yokohama S-Drive, Falken 912's, etc, and when I did want to go have some fun I was always left wishing I had more tire. Going back to Seattle now, I may have to rethink my choices, but I doubt I'll go with anything less than the tires we are discussing in this thread. If it was a daily driver I would do something a little less aggressive, but it's not.

I live in Minnesota :(

But obviously this will be a summer only kind of car for me, so all of these tires look like great options.

[Silvertop]

I live in Minnesota :(

But obviously this will be a summer only kind of car for me, so all of these tires look like great options.

As do I. But just like you, I will be driving it seasonally -- May to October, with no winter use whatsoever. Where in Minnesota are you Papajon?

[wleehendrick]

But i guess if your just looking for a tire that works on the street when its sunny and 70 degrees out.

Since that's pretty much year-round for me ;) I'm considering semi-slick for the 818.

Our Audi Quattro gets all-seasons to take skiing and I drive it on rainy days.

[papajon1000]

As do I. But just like you, I will be driving it seasonally -- May to October, with no winter use whatsoever. Where in Minnesota are you Papajon?

Home is Rochester area (Plainview), and Mankato for Grad School.